Dennis Posted May 22, 2021 Share #1 Posted May 22, 2021 Advertisement (gone after registration) I bought three years ago a brand new M10 w/ a 28mm Elmarit. I didn't fit with the 28mm FL on M, and I traded it for a 35/2.8 ZM plus extra money. It was a wise choice. I've always been a 35mm guy; it's my favorite and most used FL. Well, it's my "normal." Of course, I want to try more 35mm lenses cause I have no experience. The Biogon IQ is wow; it almost lacks cons. What I don't like? Mine, it wobbles. I prefer 1/2 f/stop rather than 1/3 because usually, I use only f/2-4-8, that's it. Let's say I never liked the Biogon (neither the aesthetics), but I like its rendering. Sometimes very contrasty, but like it. Then, I want/need f/2 ... So the plan was to keep the Biogon and add the 35/1.4 II MC ... But a few days ago, talking with a local colleague and Leica fellow (the only one in my area lol) about my M10 grip on sale, the discussion took an interesting path until we find an option: to trade my 35/2.8 ZM and the 50/2 Cron v5, for a 35 Summicron Asph v1 (1996-2016 I think) I always dreamed about this lens. It's f/2, beautiful aesthetics, 6bit-coded, focus tab (please), etc. I don't care to don't have a 50mm anymore and have just my M10 plus a 35 lens. It actually makes sense for me, less gear, fewer choices, more productive. But my experience with Leica is concise and limited. So, I'm happily listening to your feedback. Does it worth it? How is the Cron Asph v1 compared with the Biogon? Both parts are still thinking of trading or not; nothing is confirmed yet. But I would not make a final choice w/o to ask you first. P.s. curios fact. The guy is the same that gave me the Biogon for the Elmarit. Now he's thinking of having it back 🙂 Thank you 🙏 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 22, 2021 Posted May 22, 2021 Hi Dennis, Take a look here Trading two lenses for one? 35/2.8ZM + 50/2 for 35 Cron Asph v1. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
a.noctilux Posted May 22, 2021 Share #2 Posted May 22, 2021 (edited) Dennis, go for the trade 😉 You two would become winners. I was a big fan of the Summicron-M asph. 35mm "I", after some years using non-asph Lux/Cron. the 35mm M team at one point, some of them were traded long ago. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited May 22, 2021 by a.noctilux 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/321128-trading-two-lenses-for-one-3528zm-502-for-35-cron-asph-v1/?do=findComment&comment=4205730'>More sharing options...
pedaes Posted May 22, 2021 Share #3 Posted May 22, 2021 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Dennis said: How is the Cron Asph v1 compared with the Biogon? The Biogon has more contrast and higher IQ. The 'cron as you call it will not wobble and is six bit coded. Another alternative would be 2.4 Summarit. Same build quality as 'cron with better IQ , half stops and 6-bit coding. Edited May 22, 2021 by pedaes 3 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrostl Posted May 22, 2021 Share #4 Posted May 22, 2021 (edited) It would be hard for me to go in for the 35 Cron between my interests and the thrashing DigLloyd gave it because I don't see it as a "character" lens. But many love it and I certainly think it takes good enough images from what I've seen, so if it's an, "always dreamed about" lens for you it's hard to see the downside and you can always change again if you want. My original interests were focused on optics alone. Over time, I've added interest in character and compactness. So that's what I like to cover with as few lenses as possible: optics, character, and compactness. Which is usually gonna mean one lens for optics, and another for character + compactness. I currently have the VM 35/1.2 III, ZM 35/1.4, VM 35/1.4 II MC, VM 35/1.7, and ZM 35/2.8. Which is far too many 35s. If I had to stick with just one of them, it would currently be the 35/1.4 II MC because it's compact, has character, and is modern enough stopped down (made easier that the X1D II is now my "xtreme optics" camera). The ZM 35/2.8 would be a compelling choice if more prioritizing optics to the exclusion of character. But I think the VM 35/1.4 II MC + ZM 35/1.4 (maybe the VM 35/2 APO instead depending) is all I could hope to need. Edited May 22, 2021 by astrostl 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Posted May 22, 2021 Author Share #5 Posted May 22, 2021 1 hour ago, a.noctilux said: go for the trade 😉 You two would become winners. Thank you! Winners I'm not sure (if both), but super happy for sure haha 1 hour ago, pedaes said: The Biogon has more contrast and higher IQ. The 'cron as you call it will not wobble and is six bit coded. Sorry for the question. But when you say higher IQ, what you means exactly? CA, vignette, distortion etc .. All in? More clinical? 1 hour ago, pedaes said: The 'cron as you call it Does it sound weird? I read often Lux, Summilux, and even SLUX 🤣 Something like "without" vs "w/o" 1 hour ago, astrostl said: "always dreamed about" lens for you it's hard to see the downside and you can always change again if you want. That's why I created the thread. I want to be objective, then decide 🙂 Dream lens because: f/2 in enough small size and weight 6-bit coded beautiful aesthetics and design lens hood shape focus tab ideal for PJ (I think) 1 hour ago, astrostl said: I currently have the VM 35/1.2 III, ZM 35/1.4, VM 35/1.4 II MC, VM 35/1.7, and ZM 35/2.8. Lovely set 1 hour ago, astrostl said: Which is far too many 35s. If I had to stick with just one of them, it would currently be the 35/1.4 II MC because it's compact, has character, and is modern enough stopped down The mighty Nokton 🙂 If I don't trade, this will be my next 35 1 hour ago, astrostl said: The ZM 35/2.8 would be a compelling choice if more prioritizing optics to the exclusion of character. This! It delivery like a king, but... And I know that with the 35 Distagon, it's difficult to beat them. Well the new 35 APO Leica and CV as well I guess ... But I guess something is missing. Something that will give you less character and more objectivity. It's difficult to explain, i hope you get my point. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedaes Posted May 22, 2021 Share #6 Posted May 22, 2021 2 minutes ago, Dennis said: Sorry for the question. But when you say higher IQ, Measured resolution in the corners and centre at f2.8 4 minutes ago, Dennis said: Does it sound weird? No it dosn't - 'cron is fine! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted May 23, 2021 Share #7 Posted May 23, 2021 Advertisement (gone after registration) I've had the v1 35mm summicron asph since 2006 and it's a fine lens, I wouldn't be without mine. I personally take comments about it's 'measured' iq for what they are; meh! Fortunately, photography is all things to all people and I have not seen any issues in prints at sizes up to 12x16". It seems to a have reputation on here for flare, it's never been a problem for me but, like any lens, it will catch you out if you aren't thinking about what you're doing. Leica M and 35mm go hand in glove and the 35mm summicron asph is a great general purpose lens if you don't want a lens with a wider maximum aperture. My main criticism is for the poorly-made plastic lens hood and that absurd cap that is all too easily lost. Otherwise, mine gives me all I need in a 35mm lens and has never let me down. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee S Posted May 23, 2021 Share #8 Posted May 23, 2021 14 hours ago, Dennis said: I bought three years ago a brand new M10 w/ a 28mm Elmarit. I didn't fit with the 28mm FL on M, and I traded it for a 35/2.8 ZM plus extra money. It was a wise choice. I've always been a 35mm guy; it's my favorite and most used FL. Well, it's my "normal." Of course, I want to try more 35mm lenses cause I have no experience. The Biogon IQ is wow; it almost lacks cons. What I don't like? Mine, it wobbles. I prefer 1/2 f/stop rather than 1/3 because usually, I use only f/2-4-8, that's it. Let's say I never liked the Biogon (neither the aesthetics), but I like its rendering. Sometimes very contrasty, but like it. Then, I want/need f/2 ... So the plan was to keep the Biogon and add the 35/1.4 II MC ... But a few days ago, talking with a local colleague and Leica fellow (the only one in my area lol) about my M10 grip on sale, the discussion took an interesting path until we find an option: to trade my 35/2.8 ZM and the 50/2 Cron v5, for a 35 Summicron Asph v1 (1996-2016 I think) I always dreamed about this lens. It's f/2, beautiful aesthetics, 6bit-coded, focus tab (please), etc. I don't care to don't have a 50mm anymore and have just my M10 plus a 35 lens. It actually makes sense for me, less gear, fewer choices, more productive. But my experience with Leica is concise and limited. So, I'm happily listening to your feedback. Does it worth it? How is the Cron Asph v1 compared with the Biogon? Both parts are still thinking of trading or not; nothing is confirmed yet. But I would not make a final choice w/o to ask you first. P.s. curios fact. The guy is the same that gave me the Biogon for the Elmarit. Now he's thinking of having it back 🙂 Thank you 🙏 Dennis, what is this wobble? Is it common with the C-Biogon and if see how much use did it take to manifest? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lelmer Posted May 23, 2021 Share #9 Posted May 23, 2021 14 hours ago, Dennis said: ............. I always dreamed about this lens. It's f/2, beautiful aesthetics, 6bit-coded, focus tab (please), etc. ..... Why asking...go ahead 😀 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stein K S Posted May 23, 2021 Share #10 Posted May 23, 2021 Sure youˋre not going to miss that 50? I guess I am a 35 guy myself, but still really fond of my 50 cron v5... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJH Posted May 23, 2021 Share #11 Posted May 23, 2021 Just a thought Denis but how about just getting the new Voigtlander 35mm f2 APO and perhaps adding the 50mm as well, two stunning lenses and I’m a Leica lens guy most of the time!! 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey Jefferson Posted May 23, 2021 Share #12 Posted May 23, 2021 Can't offer opinions about the trade, but 35 cron asph is a lens I'll never sell unless I quite M system entirely (even then, I might not sell it just in case I'm coming back to M system). Wide open at f2 it offer just enough character to separate it from the usual contrasty clean modern rendering. Close down a stop onwards it'll become a great all around lens. I recently realize at f8 this lens is really something, it has a lot of acutance yet not clinically sharp, and very smooth. Every time I shoot at f8 it reminds me this lens isn't just about wide open. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Posted May 23, 2021 Author Share #13 Posted May 23, 2021 9 hours ago, Ouroboros said: It seems to a have reputation on here for flare, it's never been a problem for me but, like any lens, it will catch you out if you aren't thinking about what you're doing. Thank you for your thoughts. Just a little worried about flare. Where do you think I can find samples of the its flare? There are many type of flare. I can live with some reflections, rainbow flare, circle of fire etc.. But I don't like flare like this one. It was from a TT 35/1.4 (screenshot from a DNG) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 9 hours ago, Lee S said: Dennis, what is this wobble? Is it common with the C-Biogon and if see how much use did it take to manifest? IMG_5591a.mov IMG_5594a.mov Yes it's common. Never had a problem, IQ is always outstanding. At the beginning it sounded weird, now, it's just part of the lens soul 🙂 Sometimes I hear it and it's annoying, but it doesn't change nothing at all. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! IMG_5591a.mov IMG_5594a.mov Yes it's common. Never had a problem, IQ is always outstanding. At the beginning it sounded weird, now, it's just part of the lens soul 🙂 Sometimes I hear it and it's annoying, but it doesn't change nothing at all. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/321128-trading-two-lenses-for-one-3528zm-502-for-35-cron-asph-v1/?do=findComment&comment=4206340'>More sharing options...
Dennis Posted May 23, 2021 Author Share #14 Posted May 23, 2021 7 hours ago, Stein K S said: Sure youˋre not going to miss that 50? I guess I am a 35 guy myself, but still really fond of my 50 cron v5... Not. I'm not going to miss it a lot, i guess. A little, for sure. And if in the future I will realize that I need again a 50mm, I would then buy a brand new CV, such 50/1.2III or 50/1.5II .. Time will tell 5 hours ago, SJH said: Just a thought Denis but how about just getting the new Voigtlander 35mm f2 APO and perhaps adding the 50mm as well, two stunning lenses and I’m a Leica lens guy most of the time!! The CV 35 APO was in my thoughts for a while, but I don't appreciate big lenses. It's not that huge, and not so heavy, but compared with a Biogon or Nokton, it's huge. And I love a lot focus tab 🙂 3 hours ago, Casey Jefferson said: Every time I shoot at f8 it reminds me this lens isn't just about wide open. Nowadays, almost any modern lens performs very well stopped down, let's say f/4 - f11 range. But when f/2 is needed sometimes, I wouldn't want a poor f/2. I don't know how the Summicron works at f/2 ... When you say "Wide open at f2 it offer just enough character to separate it from the usual contrasty clean modern rendering." what do you mean? Modern but not so modern? I mean, well balanced? I founded, according to my taste, that the TT 35/1.4 had a very nice balance between modern and classic... Something similar maybe? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey Jefferson Posted May 23, 2021 Share #15 Posted May 23, 2021 24 minutes ago, Dennis said: Nowadays, almost any modern lens performs very well stopped down, let's say f/4 - f11 range. But when f/2 is needed sometimes, I wouldn't want a poor f/2. I don't know how the Summicron works at f/2 ... When you say "Wide open at f2 it offer just enough character to separate it from the usual contrasty clean modern rendering." what do you mean? Modern but not so modern? I mean, well balanced? I founded, according to my taste, that the TT 35/1.4 had a very nice balance between modern and classic... Something similar maybe? I read your thread about the TTA 35/1.4. Judging from images you posted, I would say the cron is less sharp wide open and that can be a pro or con depends on your need, and doesn't have quite the same separation between in focus and oof blurs. My eye tells me that it is what give it a little closer to classic look but without the low contrast and low saturation like the pre-asph summicrons. Hard to explain perhaps you need to just try one out. 🤔 Regarding f8 I too was under impression there's no bad lens at f8 but every time I shoot the 35 cron at f8 I still find it offer something different that it has the extra pop. Attached is a sample shot at f8 on M240. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/321128-trading-two-lenses-for-one-3528zm-502-for-35-cron-asph-v1/?do=findComment&comment=4206367'>More sharing options...
Dennis Posted May 23, 2021 Author Share #16 Posted May 23, 2021 10 minutes ago, Casey Jefferson said: and doesn't have quite the same separation between in focus and oof blurs. Is this the mighty 3d pop? 11 minutes ago, Casey Jefferson said: My eye tells me that it is what give it a little closer to classic look but without the low contrast and low saturation like the pre-asph summicrons. Hard to explain perhaps you need to just try one out. 🤔 Yes, I can imagine it's not easy to explain. One thing is sure: I need to try it out before the trade. Because to be honest with you, yes I do always had have expectations about the Summicron, but sometimes I also think that my Biogon is just wow. So instead of trading, I just need to add an extra lens, such as the Nokton classic II MC. 🤔 Choices ... 15 minutes ago, Casey Jefferson said: Attached is a sample shot at f8 on M240. It's a very well balance f/8 picture. Sharp enough to make me happy, and nice overall contrast Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.noctilux Posted May 23, 2021 Share #17 Posted May 23, 2021 (edited) A nice read here ... opinions are "boring", "nothing special", and many more ... anyway a lens to try out to have your own idea (as usual 😉) ... about flare: https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/287340-no-love-for-the-35mm-summicron-asph/?do=findComment&comment=3805729 Edited May 23, 2021 by a.noctilux 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Posted May 23, 2021 Author Share #18 Posted May 23, 2021 20 minutes ago, a.noctilux said: A nice read here ... opinions are "boring", "nothing special", and many more ... anyway a lens to try out to have your own idea (as usual 😉) ... about flare: https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/287340-no-love-for-the-35mm-summicron-asph/?do=findComment&comment=3805729 Thank you Arnaud. I'll check it later tonight. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Posted May 23, 2021 Author Share #19 Posted May 23, 2021 Then I think again what a 2.8/35 ZM can do wide open, and I feel that I'm just fine. No need for another 35. M10 f/2.8 MFD Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! But I know I need/want f/2..... F2 + f/4 + f/8 are my trinity apertures Let's see first if the guy decide for the trading. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! But I know I need/want f/2..... F2 + f/4 + f/8 are my trinity apertures Let's see first if the guy decide for the trading. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/321128-trading-two-lenses-for-one-3528zm-502-for-35-cron-asph-v1/?do=findComment&comment=4206492'>More sharing options...
Dennis Posted May 24, 2021 Author Share #20 Posted May 24, 2021 Do you know if the 35 Summicron asph v1 suffers focus shift? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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