Trading two lenses for one? 35/2.8ZM + 50/2 for 35 Cron Asph v1

[Jeff S]

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21 minutes ago, Dennis said:

Do you know if the 35 Summicron asph v1 suffers focus shift?

Some do, including mine (and the sample tested by Sean Reid long ago) slightly at f2.8 and f4.  Others (lct) report no issue. Never has been a problem for me, however, in print, and easily accommodated.

Andy (adan) dislikes the lens since he hates the 'pinkish' color rendering compared to various Mandler designs.  Again, I have no issue with it.

Yes, it can flare, but so can many lenses. One learns to adjust.

I've had my 35 Summicron ASPH v.1 for many years, and it's always performed well for my needs.  While I recently picked up a 35 Summilux ASPH FLE, I have kept my Summicron as a nice, smaller alternative (along with a 35 f2.8 Summaron).

This might be interesting for you....

https://www.streetsilhouettes.com/home/2017/3/30/leica-35mm-lenses-5-summicron-versions

Jeff

 

[Dennis]

6 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

Some do, including mine (and the sample tested by Sean Reid long ago) slightly at f2.8 and f4.  Others (lct) report no issue. Never has been a problem for me, however, in print, and easily accommodated.

I checked already (cause I have subscription) I didn't find any reviews on Sean Reid about this Summicron. Maybe I need to check better.

6 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

've had my 35 Summicron ASPH v.1 for many years, and it's always performed well for my needs.  

Great! Which are your pro about this lens. Because it looks like it's nothing special. There are many 35s with higher IQ, cheaper etc. Do you think is a character lens?

What I think i understood and read about it, it's that besides the cons and lacks, it's a very well balance (compromise) lens for many uses.

 

Edited May 24, 2021 by Dennis

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[lct]

23 minutes ago, Dennis said:

What I think i understood and read about it, it's that besides the cons and lacks, it's a very well balance (compromise) lens for many uses.

Yes something like that. Like the Summicron 50/2 v5 or like the previous v4 versions of both lenses in the eighties. A lens which is not perfect but when you need a 50/2 or a 35/2 lens it's the better compromise for many people.

[Jeff S]

54 minutes ago, Dennis said:

I checked already (cause I have subscription) I didn't find any reviews on Sean Reid about this Summicron. Maybe I need to check better.

Great! Which are your pro about this lens. Because it looks like it's nothing special. There are many 35s with higher IQ, cheaper etc. Do you think is a character lens?

What I think i understood and read about it, it's that besides the cons and lacks, it's a very well balance (compromise) lens for many uses.

 

I haven’t subscribed in years, so it was quite a while ago.  I tested my lens only after Sean noted the minor focus shift at f2.8 and f4, resolved by f5.6.  Mine performed just the same.

As for the rest, sorry, but I don’t engage with all this ‘character’ stuff.  I take pics under many conditions, edit and process in diverse ways, and make prints on paper that suits, with lighting to complement.  The lens just needs to perform as expected, without bothersome issues and with good handling and ergonomics.  My Summicron fits the bill.  
 

If my pics and prints lack interest or quality in any way, that’s my fault. 

The Summilux provides an extra stop, but adds size and weight.  The Summaron was inexpensive, tiny and fun to test; I may or may not keep it.

Jeff

Edited May 24, 2021 by Jeff S

[lct]

You probably know it already but this review of the 35/2 asph v1 is worth considering. I don't share its point of view about sharpness at edges and corners though. Not that the lens is always sharp there but previous Summicron 35's are generally weaker especially at f/2 and f/2.8. Also CA is not as good as the review says as far as my copy is concerned at least. Now, as i told you already, your Biogon 35/2.8 is hard to beat and it could even be the winner f you like contrasty lenses. It is a Zeiss lens though and it is not f/2 obviously. 

https://www.opticallimits.com/leicam/837-summicron35asph

Edited May 24, 2021 by lct

[Dennis]

1 hour ago, lct said:

You probably know it already but this review of the 35/2 asph v1 is worth considering. I don't share its point of view about sharpness at edges and corners though. Not that the lens is always sharp there but previous Summicron 35's are generally weaker especially at f/2 and f/2.8. Also CA is not as good as the review says as far as my copy is concerned at least. Now, as i told you already, your Biogon 35/2.8 is hard to beat and it could even be the winner f you like contrasty lenses. It is a Zeiss lens though and it is not f/2 obviously. 

https://www.opticallimits.com/leicam/837-summicron35asph

Nope, I didn't read it. I will, thank you!

 

[Dennis]

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3 hours ago, Jeff S said:

If my pics and prints lack interest or quality in any way, that’s my fault. 

Yes!

Glad your Summicron fits the bill 🙂

[Casey Jefferson]

5 hours ago, Dennis said:

Do you know if the 35 Summicron asph v1 suffers focus shift?

Nope, not on my copy. At least if there's actually any shift, it's undetectable. It's really a liberal lens, and very very well balanced.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lhat/albums/72157649248028748

Check out the above link for comparison of 35/2 V1, V4, and ASPH V1 on films. The asph does exhibit more pinkish tone but I never find it to be a problem on my M240 and M9.

Edited May 25, 2021 by Casey Jefferson

[Dennis]

1 hour ago, Casey Jefferson said:

It's really a liberal lens, and very very well balanced.

Interesting opinion, thanks.

[lct]

About focus shift, mine has none as Jeff recalled above. See my tests below. You may wish to check if the copy you're after is 6-bit coded though as several 35/2 asph v1 copies have been made in the film days and may require some calibration for digital.

 

 

 

 

[Dennis]

Hey guys, please give me an advice. The guy doesn't want to trade the lens anymore. It selling it.

It's a 35mm Summicron Asph I (v5). With full box, lens hood, pouch, lens cap, 6-bit coded.  USD 2,250. Do you think it's a fair price? The condition could be EXC or EXC+, I guess... Once I have photos, I share them here.

It would be a brand Voigtlander 35/2 Ultron II or this used 35 Summicron. Among with my 2.8/35 ZM and the CV 35/1.4 II MC ...The Ultron and the 35 Cron would both fit well with family
Ideally, I could achieve to try it hands-on before buying it. We'll see. Meanwhile, I appreciate your honest opinion.

[lct]

Difficult to say. I use both lenses, CV 35/2 on digital CL and Cron 35/2 asph v1 on full frame cameras (M240, Sony). Both modern rendering with high contrast and acutance actually. I just prefer handling the Cron on full frames and its OoF rendering is a bit softer at f/2. But i do prefer the 0.58 MFD of the CV and its smaller size is just perfect on the CL. FWIW

[Dennis]

1 hour ago, lct said:

I just prefer handling the Cron on full frames and its OoF rendering is a bit softer at f/2.

Correct. Which is better (maybe) or the Ultron II swirling. 

if 3 years ago they had told me used lens for $2.2k or new for $1k, well, I'm sure it would be the latter.

Now, don't know yet.

[Casey Jefferson]

Price seems fair.

I recently discover that the cron is maybe good up to 24mp M bodies. If you check out photographyblog M10-R review, you'll see that the lens shows smearing outside of center 1/3 and progressively worse towards edges, even at f stops like 4 or 5.6 (according of EXIF). I never realize the smearing on M240 even if I pixel peep, but I saw the same smearing adapted on Nikon Z7. Not sure if the latest version fixed this.

The Ultron maybe more suitable for high res. My current (and only) M body is M9 and the cron is a perfect match. I still love the way Leica lens capture colors and tones, I'll probably save up if I were to choose from either.

[Dennis]

2 hours ago, Casey Jefferson said:

Price seems fair.

I recently discover that the cron is maybe good up to 24mp M bodies. If you check out photographyblog M10-R review, you'll see that the lens shows smearing outside of center 1/3 and progressively worse towards edges, even at f stops like 4 or 5.6 (according of EXIF). I never realize the smearing on M240 even if I pixel peep, but I saw the same smearing adapted on Nikon Z7. Not sure if the latest version fixed this.

The Ultron maybe more suitable for high res. My current (and only) M body is M9 and the cron is a perfect match. I still love the way Leica lens capture colors and tones, I'll probably save up if I were to choose from either.

There will always be space in the family for another 35mm 😉 It's my favorite and most used FL. I like the idea of Summicron. F/2 is perfect for me. I already have a 50 Summicron v5. (both filter 39). Today (w/o considering the Ultron II), I would love to try hands three different 35: v4, (v5), (v6) and see myself the differences. About the Summicron, I'm afraid of the following: focus shift or back focus, "pinky mood," veiling flare. That's why I think between a "legend" lens that I believe will perfectly suit my need and enjoyment. But no bold issues. I have no idea how they suffer from veiling flare.

I don't want/need a Distagon or Biogon IQ. If I'm OK with the 35/1.4 Nokton Classic IQ, I'm sure I will appreciate one of the Summicron Asph I, right? I just want a lens with no notable weakness, like the barrel distortion of the Nokton Classic or the pink corners of the 21/4 color-skopar on the modern digital sensor... I want a new workhorse f/2, for everything as one lens kit when I want to be light or just for an intelligent decision.

35/2 Asph I or Ultron II? 

I hope the seller sends me photos and more info soon. I'll keep you posted.

 

 

[Dennis]

5 hours ago, lct said:

I just prefer handling the Cron on full frames and its OoF rendering is a bit softer at f/2.

That's a good reason. And on my M10 would work like a charm. The busier backgrounds are not very pleasant. 

[Casey Jefferson]

1 hour ago, Dennis said:

About the Summicron, I'm afraid of the following: focus shift or back focus, "pinky mood," veiling flare. That's why I think between a "legend" lens that I believe will perfectly suit my need and enjoyment. But no bold issues. I have no idea how they suffer from veiling flare.

I don't want/need a Distagon or Biogon IQ. If I'm OK with the 35/1.4 Nokton Classic IQ, I'm sure I will appreciate one of the Summicron Asph I, right? I just want a lens with no notable weakness, like the barrel distortion of the Nokton Classic or the pink corners of the 21/4 color-skopar on the modern digital sensor... I want a new workhorse f/2, for everything as one lens kit when I want to be light or just for an intelligent decision.

I've seen comparison between 8elements, 7elements (king of bokeh) and ASPH V1 on film, the asph does have more pink/red tint but I never run into pink problem. Never detect focus shift issue either, I think Leica do spend effort on compensate the shift by choosing a middle ground where all aperture will have the dof within focus plane.

Flare is a tricky one. Veiling flare, not so much, it's always within aesthetically pleasing range. But sometimes you'll see a small rainbow appear on some shots when strong light source is just outside the frame, and at night bright light source will give you some huge but faint flare ring.

To stir the pot further, the cron does have magenta edges issue on certain lighting on M240 and worse on old sensor M9. New CCD sensor seem to fix the magenta edge completely, so do on M10 I think.

In short - if you'll be shooting on M10 for a long while and not upgrade the body anytime soon, the cron is a great choice.

[lct]

12 hours ago, Casey Jefferson said:

If you check out photographyblog M10-R review, you'll see that the lens shows smearing outside of center 1/3 and progressively worse towards edges, even at f stops like 4 or 5.6

Never got this with my 35/2 asph v1 so far, even on my A7r2 mod. I have no experience with the M10-R though. FWIW.

[Dennis]

8 hours ago, Casey Jefferson said:

In short - if you'll be shooting on M10 for a long while and not upgrade the body anytime soon, the cron is a great choice.

In short, with my 24MP M10 or on film, the Asph I would be a great choice. If upgrade in the future to an higher MP camera, maybe, I could have some issues. It totally makes sense.

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[Casey Jefferson]

21 minutes ago, lct said:

Never got this with my 35/2 asph v1 so far, even on my A7r2 mod. I have no experience with the M10-R though. FWIW.

I'm trying to figure out if it's a copy issue or design issue. The review in question was definitely done mainly on the cron, just download the JPEG and pixel peep.