Leica SL2-S: Versatile Alternative with 24MP Sensor

[Mick H]

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3 hours ago, simon_hsn said:

Thansk! The Link does work now. I tried the LUTs I am very pleased by the initital results. I prefer the Natural LUTs to the Classic ones. I think Leica is off to a promising start in that area. I am certain, ProResRaw support with the Ninja V will be available down the road. Good times ahead!

Hi, I agree Natural works best in my initial testing.  The "Nicest" LUT from Panasonic is somewhat similar in effect.

[Mick H]

On 12/12/2020 at 12:30 AM, scott kirkpatrick said:

How do you load the LUTs on an SL[601]?  Same question for an SL2 (or does the latest firmware already include them?  I haven't worked with LUTs, and couldn't find any details in the SL2-S manual. 

As far as I know, LUTs can't be loaded into the SL (Typ 601) for viewing purposes when filming in L Log.  The SL2-S supposedly with have this feature.  I don't know about the SL2 though it would probably get the feature.  I can load LUTs into my S1H for shooting in V Log so I can see an approximation of what the flat V Log will look like later in post with the LUT applied.  LUTs can be loaded into external recorders, like Atomos, for viewing and exposure tuning.  

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[hexx]

On 12/11/2020 at 8:21 PM, Jeff S said:

The SL2 is not *that* much bigger or heavier than the M, and the grip aids in handling. The native SL lenses might give the impression that it’s a cumbersome camera. But actually I find the balance, even with the huge 90-280, surprisingly good.  And IBIS allows for steady handholding at slow speeds.  I owned the R system, and I find the SL2 a worthy, and more flexible, successor.

That said, I won’t be selling my M bodies as long as my vision cooperates. The RF is a different experience, and the M lenses are small jewels.  I keep my M lenses on my M bodies, and my SL lenses on the SL2. Different tools and experiences for me. Much like when I used both R and M film systems.

Jeff

Hi, would you say that I'd miss M240 if I swapped it for SL2-S to use with my M lenses and some other lenses I have (some old Nikkors)?

[Jeff S]

15 minutes ago, hexx said:

Hi, would you say that I'd miss M240 if I swapped it for SL2-S to use with my M lenses and some other lenses I have (some old Nikkors)?

Sorry, but I can’t answer that for you, or for anyone else.  For me, the M is a unique experience that can’t be replicated with another system.  Been that way since the 80’s.  I use it with RF only, typically with 28/35/50 focal lengths (and had the M240 before replacing with the M10).  The SL 2 is my complementary system, for wider/longer focal lengths, zooms, weather sealing, IBIS, EVF focus aids, etc.  And a totally different shooting experience.  I use it with native SL lenses only.  
 

Others have totally different needs, preferences and shooting workflows.  The beauty of the SL system (all versions) is that it is extremely flexible and can be used in a host of ways, with native and/or adapted lenses (including M, R, S, TL, and lots more).

Any of these fine systems are remarkably capable of producing wonderful files in the right hands.  Whether those translate to wonderful pics, and whether the process to get there is enjoyable, is strictly up to the user.

Jeff

[la1402]

 

2 hours ago, hexx said:

Hi, would you say that I'd miss M240 if I swapped it for SL2-S to use with my M lenses and some other lenses I have (some old Nikkors)?

Depends what you like and what is important for you. I am a (D)SLR user since the mid 80's  and always was curious about the M-System. But I never warmed to using a Rangefinder, as much as I wanted to. Having Asthigamtismus and needing bifocal glasses does not help. I use a 35 & 50mm summicron on the SL2-S and they work well. For me, the only disadvantage is that - if you want to focus very exactly - you need to do so at open aperture and afterwards close the aperture. But the benefits (Large Viewfinder with great OLED, Peaking, IBIS) outweigh that for me. In terms of pictures, the SL2S beats all other 24MP files I have seen. WB, Color, Details, Noise - they are wonderful. Now that I see those, I don't want to go back to sensors that are worse. Anyway, The M is a unique and charming system and if I had unlimited funds I would add one for the fun of it. But I don't see it as a main system for me.

[MediaFotografie]

Sorry, I bad a simple question about the SL2-S: Do we know it‘s a Sony sensor inside? Or something other? Is ist the same sensor which Pana‘s S1/S5 use?

SL2 and S1R don‘t use Sony.

Thanks for an information!

[Chaemono]

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vor 47 Minuten schrieb MediaFotografie:

Sorry, I bad a simple question about the SL2-S: Do we know it‘s a Sony sensor inside? Or something other? Is ist the same sensor which Pana‘s S1/S5 use?

SL2 and S1R don‘t use Sony.

Thanks for an information!

It’s all about probabilities of this image sensor data sheet https://www.sony-semicon.co.jp/products/common/pdf/IMX410CQK_Flyer.pdf matching exactly David Farkas’ image sensor information on the SL2-S here: https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2020/12/leica-sl2-s-announced/

S1 and S5 are 24.2 effective MPx so one would think different sensor. BUT α7RIII also 24.2 MPx. Hence, likely that all cameras use a variant of the IMX410. However, Leica did a terrific job with the color filter array, filter stack composition, micro-lenses, cooling, color science, pre-processing stack, etc. to produce a “better” output, Panasonic equally with the dual native ISO on the S5.

Edited December 14, 2020 by Chaemono

[Ko.Fe.]

Still don't know why it is better than Sony cameras. a7c is with VF in the M corner.  Also unlimited video, more capacity on battery and it could AF M lenses :).

[Steven]

3 minutes ago, Ko.Fe. said:

Still don't know why it is better than Sony cameras. a7c is with VF in the M corner.  Also unlimited video, more capacity on battery and it could AF M lenses :).

Can you rephrase your comment, I havent understood? thanks. 

[Ko.Fe.]

1 minute ago, Steven said:

Can you rephrase your comment, I havent understood? thanks. 

I'm trying to find the practical reason why I would choose 24 MP IBIS EVF Leica over 24 MP IBIS EVF Sony.

[Steven]

9 minutes ago, Ko.Fe. said:

I'm trying to find the practical reason why I would choose 24 MP IBIS EVF Leica over 24 MP IBIS EVF Sony.

Oh, here's a little thread I started on a similar topic. But if you want the short answer, the final images you get from the SL2-S can't even be compared to the Sony, because it's not the same league. Another reason is the lenses, same here, no competition. If all that is not enough and you don't care about the final image, then let me invoke the last and most important reason: the shooting experience. No competition. 

 

 

[farnz]

3 hours ago, Steven said:

<snip> ... the final images you get from the SL2-S can't even be compared to the Sony, because it's not the same league. ... <snip>

Just to clarify, do you mean that the pictures from the SL2-S are better than those from the Sony?  (I only ask because the way you phrased it it could be taken either way. 🙂) 

Pete.

[Steven]

6 hours ago, farnz said:

Just to clarify, do you mean that the pictures from the SL2-S are better than those from the Sony?  (I only ask because the way you phrased it it could be taken either way. 🙂) 

Pete.

Yes. I think that this statement, while it's not true for landscape photos, is very true for everything with human subjects. The depth, the micro contrasts, the 3D pop effect just doesn't exist on Sony. Trust me I tried everything. A big part of it is the lens, of course. If you could adapt SL lenses on Sony's, for example, that would makes things more difficult for Leica. But only to an extent, because even adapted to Panasonic, you lose the 3D pop magic. 

[Chaemono]

vor 7 Minuten schrieb Steven:

...even adapted to Panasonic, you lose the 3D pop magic. 

It’s only the combination of body and lens that makes this happen. The lower the pixel count the better the blur has to be. That’s why Sony is working on a 100 MPx FF sensor, to compensate for poor blur. 

[Slender]

2 hours ago, Chaemono said:

It’s only the combination of body and lens that makes this happen. The lower the pixel count the better the blur has to be. That’s why Sony is working on a 100 MPx FF sensor, to compensate for poor blur. 

 

Ah! perfect way to put it. I saw some pictures from Sony photographer Renan Ozturk (quietly "re-making" Eric Valli's work in the himalayas 🤔 ... anyway) and I was distracted by the really poor nature of bokeh. Ok it is not the camera/lens but the subject that should matter, but it was distracting enough to be noticed. (here, from 3:15mm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8G0fNkk4g0A).

The original story breaker: proper badass old school stuff shot with 1970/80ies Leica here:
http://www.ericvalli.org/honey-hunters-eric-valli-photos/

 

Edited December 16, 2020 by Slender

[Steven]

1 hour ago, Slender said:

 

Ah! perfect way to put it. I saw some pictures from Sony photographer Renan Ozturk (quietly "re-making" Eric Valli's work in the himalayas 🤔 ... anyway) and I was distracted by the really poor nature of bokeh. Ok it is not the camera/lens but the subject that should matter, but it was distracting enough to be noticed. (here, from 3:15mm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8G0fNkk4g0A).

The original story breaker: proper badass old school stuff shot with 1970/80ies Leica here:
http://www.ericvalli.org/honey-hunters-eric-valli-photos/

 

This post should be bookmarked and reused every time someone asks what's so magical about the Leica image quality. 

[Ko.Fe.]

15 hours ago, Steven said:

Oh, here's a little thread I started on a similar topic. But if you want the short answer, the final images you get from the SL2-S can't even be compared to the Sony, because it's not the same league. Another reason is the lenses, same here, no competition. If all that is not enough and you don't care about the final image, then let me invoke the last and most important reason: the shooting experience. No competition. 

 

 

Well, I'm into the content. First and foremost. Not just into bokeh and 3D pop. 

As for lenses rendering with quality, Zeiss makes AF lenses for Sony.  

And shooting experience is subjective thing.   I'd rather have tiny Samyang tiny AF prime for best shooting experience, not lens lifting experience.  

[Slender]

why lurk around here then, where AF is terrible, lenses weigh a ton and cost more than your Alberta treehouse? Sounds like a terrible place to be.

Edited December 16, 2020 by Slender

[SrMi]

2 hours ago, Ko.Fe. said:

Well, I'm into the content. First and foremost. Not just into bokeh and 3D pop. 

As for lenses rendering with quality, Zeiss makes AF lenses for Sony.  

And shooting experience is subjective thing.   I'd rather have tiny Samyang tiny AF prime for best shooting experience, not lens lifting experience.  

For me, the ergonomics are the main reason why my a9 and a7rIII rarely leave the cabinet. There are many alternatives to Sony if I need something smaller and lighter than an SL2.

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[Steven]

3 hours ago, Ko.Fe. said:

Well, I'm into the content.

We are too. Doesn’t mean that image quality and rendering, how subjective it might be, doesn’t matter. 
you should know that the best photographers, and the best filmmakers, didn’t and will never neglect the gear, as some people might claim sometimes. 
a great architect needs the best tools to build his vision into reality. 
and yes, the subject is king, but the subject doesn’t do everything. A photographer with a great subject is a little like a sismologue. The earthquake does most of the job, but without the proper gear you can record it properly.