SL2-S

[NigelG]

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2 minutes ago, Steven said:

Sounds nice. How do you know? Do you have any photo leak to share ? 

https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/news/james-bond-themed-leica-q2-in-october

[frame-it]

the Q2 Monochrome

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[Chaemono]

vor 22 Stunden schrieb nicci78:

I don’t think so. 
Leica did not have the budget to build hundreds of different body. 

Same SL2 name suggest that the body is identical. But the inside will be different. Just like the whole M10 series : same body. Different internal with some minor cosmetic changes.  

Leica has no choice than to come up with a smaller, more compact FF L-mount body, IMO. Every manufacturer has one and the S5 with the Summicron-SL lenses just feels lighter to carry. The S5 is smaller than the Z6/7, just a bit thicker and 39 g heavier. It will be tough to compete if they put the innards of the S5 in the SL2 body, I think.

[nicci78]

We asked for it since 2015 with the Q. Make it interchangeable and it will fly off the shelves. 
Instead we got SL.
We also got CL. Some were still saying make the CL with full frame sensor. It will sell like hot cakes. 
Did Leica listen for a smaller SL ? Nope. We got the heavier SL2 ! 

We want small AF lenses. Humongous SL zooms, we got. 
Then APO-Summicron-SL is ok, but not small nor light by any means  

I now think that Leica does not want to make us happy nor winning easy cash. 

Edited October 24, 2020 by nicci78

[Boojay]

24 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

Leica has no choice than to come up with a smaller, more compact FF L-mount body, IMO. Every manufacturer has one and the S5 with the Summicron-SL lenses just feels lighter to carry. The S5 is smaller than the Z6/7, just a bit thicker and 39 g heavier. It will be tough to compete if they put the innards of the S5 in the SL2 body, I think.

Well of course they have a choice and I'm not sure I see them coming up with one anytime soon.

While I agree about the size and feel of the S5, with the SL Summicron, the fact remains most of the FF AF lenses are all of a size that almost negates the smaller body advantage, and in fact most feel better balanced on the SL2 or S1/R bodies.  

 

 

Edited October 24, 2020 by Boojay

[Chaemono]

vor 8 Minuten schrieb Boojay:

Well of course they have a choice and I'm not sure I see them coming up with one anytime soon.

While I agree about the size and feel of the S5, with the SL Summicron, the fact remains most of the FF AF lenses are all of a size that almost negates the smaller body advantage, and in fact most feel better balanced on the SL2 or S1/R bodies.  

 

 

The ‘no choice’ is complemented by the ‘tough to compete’ in the last sentence. What if Panasonic puts that 47 MPx sensor next in an S5 body? How many SL2 users would prefer the more compact camera then?

[Chaemono]

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vor 3 Stunden schrieb nicci78:

...
We want small AF lenses. Humongous SL zooms, we got. 
Then APO-Summicron-SL is ok, but not small nor light by any means  

I now think that Leica does not want to make us happy nor winning easy cash. 

The 75 and the 90 Summicron SL lenses are compact for these focal lengths and their optical performance, IMO. Even the 35 Summicron-SL compares favorably in terms of size with the Nikon NIKKOR Z 35/1.8 S.

[Chaemono]

vor 10 Minuten schrieb Steven:

The 35 sl is a tank compared to the Sony 35 1.8 

Sony lenses usually suck except stopped down is my experience. I bet that one does so hard.

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[nicci78]

What if SL2-S really means speed. 
And for that it will use 24MP sensor with phase detect pixels ? Just to provide us awesome hybride phase-contrast detect AF 

[Joakim]

36 minutes ago, nicci78 said:

What if SL2-S really means speed. 
And for that it will use 24MP sensor with phase detect pixels ? Just to provide us awesome hybride phase-contrast detect AF 

That would imply that the normal SL2 is slow, a marketing own goal to use a sport term.

Edited October 26, 2020 by Joakim

[Yuhau]

It has been  a long time since CL or TL2  were  released and  with the recent  3 new APS-C L mount lens from Sigma,  SL2-S  well may be a scaled down APS-C version of SL2 with IBIS. 

[Slender]

1 hour ago, Steven said:

In that example, rather that speed, I would call it sensitivity. 
In any case, if that’s true, Leica can take my money now. 
Any idea when that sl2s might be announced ? I’m itching to buy an sl2 but now I also want to wait and see the sl2s 

I dont have a crystal ball but I wouldn't count on this. Leica specifically says no to phase detect because of IQ loss issues, apparently.

[nicci78]

Leica needs hybrid phase+contrast AF right now. Otherwise Leica R demise will repeat again. At the time only MF lenses, combined with the rise of digital killed the system. 
Now no phase detect will too. 
 

Look at close to zero sales of Lumix S in Japan :

 

At this rate Panasonic will left the camera business soon. Killing the L-mount alliance in the process. 

Edited October 26, 2020 by nicci78

[tom.w.bn]

vor 15 Minuten schrieb nicci78:

Leica needs hybrid phase+contrast AF right now. Otherwise Leica R demise will repeat again. At the time only MF lenses, combined with the rise of digital killed the system. 
Now no phase detect will too. 
 

Look at close to zero sales of Lumix S in Japan :

 

At this rate Panasonic will left the camera business soon. Killing the L-mount alliance in the process. 

Many people rant about the AF. Still no proof that this a real life problem, except for vloggers.

[nicci78]

Have you tried their AF system ? It is definitely better for photo and video. 
No way to argue. 
DFD is somewhat ok. But against awesome AF. Which one consumer will choose ? 
This graph just proved that people do not care for DFD. They want awesome AF with foolproof eye AF. 
We can say whatever, it is definitely an improvement in AF department. 
 

Panasonic and Leica ashould just get into phase detect AF bandwagon. Just to avoid bad rap from reviewers. 
They constantly repeating that DFD is crap don’t buy it ! 
Guess what ? people listened to them and did not buy Panasonic stuff. 
Have you seen the almost close to zero percent market share ? 

[Dr. G]

On 10/24/2020 at 12:20 PM, Chaemono said:

Sony lenses usually suck except stopped down is my experience. I bet that one does so hard.

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I now use the SL2 with the APO Summicron-SL 50mm.   My copy of the Zeiss Sony 50mm f/1.4 ZA was an incredible lens wide open - I'm clearly not a fanboy, my images don't lie.

[Dr. G]

4 hours ago, Steven said:

In that example, rather that speed, I would call it sensitivity. 
In any case, if that’s true, Leica can take my money now. 
Any idea when that sl2s might be announced ? I’m itching to buy an sl2 but now I also want to wait and see the sl2s 

This.  I would take a 24mp sensor that had less noise at higher ISOs.  I could take my Summicron-SL lenses out at night without a flash and use the camera at 1/125 for general shooting at events and never look back.  

I'm not getting rid of my SL2, though.  No issues carrying two bodies.  

[Rick in CO]

The precedent of the R4S is being a "simplified" version at a less expensive price tag.  How would Leica economize features of the SL2 to make the full frame SL2-"S" camera less expensive?  Take out IBIS, the higher res finder, or video - which are the most expensive?  Is the 24 Mp full frame sensor passe' ?  Keeping the 24 Mp sensor camera with IBIS and the high res finder is unlikely if the supply is low and/or being phased out.

I can't see an APS sensor in the SL body with the large size of the camera and calling what would be the CL2 an SL2S. 

Similarly I can't see them putting the S3 sensor in the SL2-"S", it would kill off that line (and not be "simplified").

My guess is the SL2S would have the 47 Mp sensor with the original SL finder, no IBIS and maybe no video - hence "simplified".

 

[nicci78]

I am pretty sure SL2-S does not mean simplified. But Speed. 
Not that R4s is written with lower case s directly attached to R4 : meaning simplified R4.
Here SL2-S has a upper case S separated from SL2 with a hyphen. Signifying same body,  but different internal. 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[Simone_DF]

5 hours ago, Slender said:

I dont have a crystal ball but I wouldn't count on this. Leica specifically says no to phase detect because of IQ loss issues, apparently.

That is just marketing bulls..t, pure and simple. 
There CAN be IQ loss, but it happens only in extreme conditions, and even in that case, it’s rare. I’ve been using Sony cameras since the A7RII and I’ve never encountered this issue. 
Truth is the chances of IQ loss are pretty much negligible, compared to the benefits of phase detect. That’s the reason why every manufacturer except Leica / Panasonic are using phase detect.