M10 Upgreade to M10-R or not?

[Bikie John]

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4 hours ago, rramesh said:

To be honest, most viewers of an exceptional photograph rarely comment on the camera or the lens used. It's always about the image, the moment and the photographer.

Are you sure? How many times have you heard people say "you must have a good camera"? Usually when you have stood for hours thigh-deep in dirty water to get a photo with a 10-year-old point & shoot 😆

John

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[Mikep996]

I relate it to the music performance world - If a performance is good, it's good!  People say, "Wow, that was great!"  They DON"T say, "Wow, that was great but think how much better it would have been if he'd have been using a [whatever brand] instrument.  As noted, it's about the image produced, not about what produced it.

I have said several times, I ENJOY using my M10 more than any other digital camera but the best pics I have taken with my M10 are not better than the best pics I took with my 6MP Nikon D70.  I like to think that I get a higher percentage of good pics with my M10/Leica glass but that might have as much to do with how much money I have tied up in the system than anything else!  

[TrickyMrT]

12 hours ago, Jeff S said:

True.  He bought it 2 weeks ago.

Jeff

And I'm so happy 😁 

It's the best M I ever had! I enjoy taking pictures with my M10-R

[Guest]

On 10/1/2020 at 1:21 AM, setuporg said:

I've not noticed any of that.  Same as my M10.

Pretty sure in one of stefan daniel's interviews he said battery performance was lower and then i read somewhere it was 10% shorter battery life.

But if your real world experience disproves that i totally accept that as true.

[setuporg]

35 minutes ago, steve 1959 said:

Pretty sure in one of stefan daniel's interviews he said battery performance was lower and then i read somewhere it was 10% shorter battery life.

But if your real world experience disproves that i totally accept that as true.

Yes I saw that too but in real life I carry a bunch of spares and notice when I change them quite approximately, I'd sure not register a 10% difference.  It lasts me about 2/3 of a day of intense shooting, I go through about 800 shots a day when I'm out and about and I need about the same number of spares to feel comfortable, so that's that.

[250swb]

On 9/30/2020 at 5:36 PM, Herr Barnack said:

All quite true. 

At the end of the day, it's about the content of the image and the visual impact the image produces.

Cartier-Bresson prints are not huge and do not have cornea destroying resolution yet their prices are in the ionosphere ("Price on Request"):  http://www.artnet.com/artists/henri-cartier-bresson/on-the-banks-of-the-marne-paris-a-6alQ99lrXv1pI_YrPpDJZw2

Also very true.

The thing is arguments about content and image size are moot because nobody moves into a bigger house when they buy a new camera to take advantage of the increased print size, and you only need to look at the M10-R image thread to see that content hasn't changed from the M10, and that from the M240, and then the M9, and M8, MP, M7, M6 etc. If you went back twenty years on the forum you'd find direct equivalents to every content theme currently posted in the image thread. Nobody is discovering a unique application for the M10-R except to say if a good photographer could make an amazing photograph with the M10 they'll do the same with an M10-R. But then they'd also do it with a Holga as well.

[RayD28]

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I like to shoot sports (not getting much since COVID) and use a Nikon D800 with 36MP and Nikon 70-200 with vibration reduction.  Has anyone shot a 90MM APO and cropped to the equivalent of a 200mm and compared images?  The R's higher dynamic range and high ISO ability (to reduce camera shake) sounds promising.  If I can great results with extreme cropping at ISO 6400 I might upgrade to the R and unload my Nikon equipment to make it affordable.   

All info appreciated.  

[M11 for me]

Hm, an M10 and a D800 . . . 

In sport scenes I shoot with the X 

 

 

(iPhone). And I wonder if I should sell the M10 . . . 

Edited October 3, 2020 by M10 for me

[Jeff S]

2 hours ago, M10 for me said:

And I wonder if I should sell the M10 . . . 

Your name says no.

Jeff

[M11 for me]

vor 20 Minuten schrieb Jeff S:

Your name says no.

Jeff

oh, right. I forgot. But if I think it over twice then I think I will definitely keep my M10. Still the M10 with all my lenses is not for everything. But no camera is. 

Edited October 3, 2020 by M10 for me

[budjames]

I own an M10 (factory converted to M10-P) and the M10-R. After shooting the M10-R for the past three weeks and spending time processing the resulting DNG files in Capture One Pro 20, I don't think that my M10-P will see much use in the future. The dynamic range and detail in the M10-R files is simply amazing.

If you want the best image quality possible with your Leica M lenses, the M10-R is a no-brainer upgrade, albeit, an expensive one.

Realizing that you should be fiscally responsible with your photography hobby, the M10/M10-P remains an amazing camera. I have many great images taken with mine and I love the M shooting experience once I relearned how to manual focus. For many, particularly those buying their first M, a nice used M10 can be had for about half the cost of a new one, now that the M10-R is out. That might be the best option for many hobbyists as even used, the M10 and a Leica lens or two is still a very expensive investment.

Great to have choices.

Regards,
Bud James

Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.

Edited October 4, 2020 by budjames

[robsonj]

1 hour ago, Steven said:

Factory converted ? What does that mean ? 
i would love to factory convert my M10P into an m10r !!! 
Jokes aside, I’m really hesitating on the upgrade. Money is no issue for me. But I have a q2 which I like to use when I look for more MP. I’m afraid if I upgrade my M10p I’ll never use the q2 anymore. 

I think there was a scheme where you could send in your m10 to have it factory upgraded to an m10-p

[tom0511]

I dont know but my feeling you are not loosing soul and charachter, I believe those come more form lenses than from sensor.

[TrickyMrT]

5 hours ago, Steven said:

I'm highly tempted to upgrade my M10P in order to get higher res, better highlights, and generally speaking to have a camera that will hold its value better for the next few years. 

My only worry is that this new high res sensor will be too clinical, to sharp, too clean.. too digital. 

One thing I love about my m10p is that it has "character". The pictures look like they have soul. It's the closest camera I have to the analog era. And I am afraid I will lose this look with the M10R... 

I had the same, but I can promise that you will get a much better look than the M10-P had. It´s maybe because of the new sensor or the higher resolution that feels like a film now.

For a final touch, I use https://reallyniceimages.com/ 

The M10-R profile is fantastic is very, very good!

 

 

[jdlaing]

1 minute ago, Steven said:

Ok, fair point. Let me ask you this then (and it's a genuine question, I swear I am not trolling): 

- what gives character to my photos is my summilux 35mm. I think I can understand and agree with that. It's not the sensor. In this case, as far as IQ is concerned (and if we don't consider at all the process and experience of shooting on an M camera), wouldn't I be better off adapting my Lux on an R5 or an A7RIV, and take full advantage of the superior sensor these cameras provide, along with the flexibility they offer over the M? 

Again, I am really asking out of curiosity. Not trying to offend anyone. I love my M. 

No. The A7r4 would be hobbled with a lens wider than 50. 

[Tom Johnston]

Back in the last century Leica upgraded thread mount bodies with various features; the M8 could be upgraded to M8.2; the M9 to M9P, and from what it sounds like, the M10 can be upgraded to the features of the M10P.

Can the M10/M10P be upgraded to the M10R?

When people write of upgrading do they mean trading their M10/M10P in to purchase a new M10R?

[budjames]

On 10/4/2020 at 8:43 AM, robsonj said:

I think there was a scheme where you could send in your m10 to have it factory upgraded to an m10-p

You are correct. There is a factory M10 to M10-P upgrade program. My M10 slide off the back seat of my car resulting in a small ding in the camera's top plate. It was about $1,000 to replace just the top plate. Then Leica announced the upgrade program. For $2,995. the Leica Soho NYC store sent my camera to Germany where the upgrade include a new top plate with engraving on the top, the silent shutter and electronic level. Mine was the first conversion in the county. It took about 5 weeks, but it was worth it.

The serial number is retained and the engraving on the hot shoe still says M10. However, the EXIF data identifies the camera as the M10-P.

As a benefit of the conversion, I had since the camera was new a random issue when activating the frame lines lever, my Summicron 35mm ASPH lens would sometimes show up in EXIF data as "R-adapted" lens with no focal length being recorded. This problem was resolved with the conversion.

Now that the M10-R is available, I don't think that converting an M10 to an M10-P makes economic sense. I think you can trade your M10 in and add the cost of the conversion and probably be close to the purchase price of an M10-R.

I don't plan on trading in my converted M10-P because this is my first Leica so I plan on keeping it for sentimental reasons. Besides, it's an excellent camera even with the 24 MP sensor.

Regards,
Bud James

Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.

Edited October 6, 2020 by budjames

[tom0511]

vor 23 Stunden schrieb Steven:

Ok, fair point. Let me ask you this then (and it's a genuine question, I swear I am not trolling): 

- what gives character to my photos is my summilux 35mm. I think I can understand and agree with that. It's not the sensor. In this case, as far as IQ is concerned (and if we don't consider at all the process and experience of shooting on an M camera), wouldn't I be better off adapting my Lux on an R5 or an A7RIV, and take full advantage of the superior sensor these cameras provide, along with the flexibility they offer over the M? 

Again, I am really asking out of curiosity. Not trying to offend anyone. I love my M. 

I once had an earlier A7 model. For me it is not an option. Two reasons:

1) totally different user interface; simplicity vs tons and functions and buttons, ovf vs evf; If I use M-lens I use it on a M; if I use evf/af camera I want af lens.

2) I think, at least for wider lenses the Sony sensor smears edges when using M-lenses

If you want that flexibility to have one camer for AF and M-lenses I  think best option is a Leica SL or SL2 which works relativly well with M lenses.

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[TrickyMrT]

I have tested the Sony A7III. In terms of usability, ergonomics, and image quality, you can´t compare it to the Leica M10-R.

Sony´s A7III feels like a toy for kids.

I really hated everything on this camera. Mostly look and feel!

[jberry]

On 10/6/2020 at 7:52 PM, budjames said:

You are correct. There is a factory M10 to M10-P upgrade program. My M10 slide off the back seat of my car resulting in a small ding in the camera's top plate. It was about $1,000 to replace just the top plate. Then Leica announced the upgrade program. For $2,995. the Leica Soho NYC store sent my camera to Germany where the upgrade include a new top plate with engraving on the top, the silent shutter and electronic level. Mine was the first conversion in the county. It took about 5 weeks, but it was worth it.

The serial number is retained and the engraving on the hot shoe still says M10. However, the EXIF data identifies the camera as the M10-P.

As a benefit of the conversion, I had since the camera was new a random issue when activating the frame lines lever, my Summicron 35mm ASPH lens would sometimes show up in EXIF data as "R-adapted" lens with no focal length being recorded. This problem was resolved with the conversion.

Now that the M10-R is available, I don't think that converting an M10 to an M10-P makes economic sense. I think you can trade your M10 in and add the cost of the conversion and probably be close to the purchase price of an M10-R.

I don't plan on trading in my converted M10-P because this is my first Leica so I plan on keeping it for sentimental reasons. Besides, it's an excellent camera even with the 24 MP sensor.

Regards,
Bud James

Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.

Hey Bud James! When you did the M10 to M10-P conversion, did Leica Germany also change out the back screen to be a touch screen?