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M10 Upgreade to M10-R or not?


TrickyMrT

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5 minutes ago, jdlaing said:

No. The A7r4 would be hobbled with a lens wider than 50. 

Actually, just found a thread with a lot of info on that. Ignore my question ! 

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/311694-opinions-on-sony-cameras-with-leica-m-lenses/?tab=comments#comment-4015525

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quick update though, although I don't want to hijack the thread. 

I just tried my 35mm Lux ASPH on my brand new a7siii with the metabones M to E adapter. A few observations: 

-The photos seemed excellent to me, even with the 12mp sensor. 

-The focusing experience was excellent as well, as the focus assistant of the a7siii is meant to act like a cine camera. In fact, the focus peaking was very reliable with my lux. 

-I tried to take a video with the lux mounted on the a7siii and OH MY GOD. It was an orgasm. The image I got out of it is like nothing ive seen before from a mirrorless. It looked to my eyes like if I was shooting a Hollywood movie with an ARRI

I definitely need to test this out some more...

PS. This won't stop me from upgrading to the m10r of course....

Edited by Steven
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Back in the last century Leica upgraded thread mount bodies with various features; the M8 could be upgraded to M8.2; the M9 to M9P, and from what it sounds like, the M10 can be upgraded to the features of the M10P.

Can the M10/M10P be upgraded to the M10R?

When people write of upgrading do they mean trading their M10/M10P in to purchase a new M10R?

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3 minutes ago, Tom Johnston said:

Back in the last century Leica upgraded thread mount bodies with various features; the M8 could be upgraded to M8.2; the M9 to M9P, and from what it sounds like, the M10 can be upgraded to the features of the M10P.

Can the M10/M10P be upgraded to the M10R?

When people write of upgrading do they mean trading their M10/M10P in to purchase a new M10R?

As far as I'm concerned, I mean trading in my P towards the purchase of the R... Although im not sure it's the right move yet. 

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On 10/4/2020 at 8:43 AM, robsonj said:

I think there was a scheme where you could send in your m10 to have it factory upgraded to an m10-p

You are correct. There is a factory M10 to M10-P upgrade program. My M10 slide off the back seat of my car resulting in a small ding in the camera's top plate. It was about $1,000 to replace just the top plate. Then Leica announced the upgrade program. For $2,995. the Leica Soho NYC store sent my camera to Germany where the upgrade include a new top plate with engraving on the top, the silent shutter and electronic level. Mine was the first conversion in the county. It took about 5 weeks, but it was worth it.

The serial number is retained and the engraving on the hot shoe still says M10. However, the EXIF data identifies the camera as the M10-P.

As a benefit of the conversion, I had since the camera was new a random issue when activating the frame lines lever, my Summicron 35mm ASPH lens would sometimes show up in EXIF data as "R-adapted" lens with no focal length being recorded. This problem was resolved with the conversion.

Now that the M10-R is available, I don't think that converting an M10 to an M10-P makes economic sense. I think you can trade your M10 in and add the cost of the conversion and probably be close to the purchase price of an M10-R.

I don't plan on trading in my converted M10-P because this is my first Leica so I plan on keeping it for sentimental reasons. Besides, it's an excellent camera even with the 24 MP sensor.

Regards,
Bud James

Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.

Edited by budjames
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vor 23 Stunden schrieb Steven:

Ok, fair point. Let me ask you this then (and it's a genuine question, I swear I am not trolling): 

- what gives character to my photos is my summilux 35mm. I think I can understand and agree with that. It's not the sensor. In this case, as far as IQ is concerned (and if we don't consider at all the process and experience of shooting on an M camera), wouldn't I be better off adapting my Lux on an R5 or an A7RIV, and take full advantage of the superior sensor these cameras provide, along with the flexibility they offer over the M? 

Again, I am really asking out of curiosity. Not trying to offend anyone. I love my M. 

I once had an earlier A7 model. For me it is not an option. Two reasons:

1) totally different user interface; simplicity vs tons and functions and buttons, ovf vs evf; If I use M-lens I use it on a M; if I use evf/af camera I want af lens.

2) I think, at least for wider lenses the Sony sensor smears edges when using M-lenses

If you want that flexibility to have one camer for AF and M-lenses I  think best option is a Leica SL or SL2 which works relativly well with M lenses.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 10/6/2020 at 7:52 PM, budjames said:

You are correct. There is a factory M10 to M10-P upgrade program. My M10 slide off the back seat of my car resulting in a small ding in the camera's top plate. It was about $1,000 to replace just the top plate. Then Leica announced the upgrade program. For $2,995. the Leica Soho NYC store sent my camera to Germany where the upgrade include a new top plate with engraving on the top, the silent shutter and electronic level. Mine was the first conversion in the county. It took about 5 weeks, but it was worth it.

The serial number is retained and the engraving on the hot shoe still says M10. However, the EXIF data identifies the camera as the M10-P.

As a benefit of the conversion, I had since the camera was new a random issue when activating the frame lines lever, my Summicron 35mm ASPH lens would sometimes show up in EXIF data as "R-adapted" lens with no focal length being recorded. This problem was resolved with the conversion.

Now that the M10-R is available, I don't think that converting an M10 to an M10-P makes economic sense. I think you can trade your M10 in and add the cost of the conversion and probably be close to the purchase price of an M10-R.

I don't plan on trading in my converted M10-P because this is my first Leica so I plan on keeping it for sentimental reasons. Besides, it's an excellent camera even with the 24 MP sensor.

Regards,
Bud James

Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.

Hey Bud James! When you did the M10 to M10-P conversion, did Leica Germany also change out the back screen to be a touch screen?

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On 10/21/2020 at 10:21 PM, jberry said:

Hey Bud James! When you did the M10 to M10-P conversion, did Leica Germany also change out the back screen to be a touch screen?

It was done in late July last year. 

Yes, they replaced the screen, silent shutter and the top plate. It is an M10-P with exception of the hot shoe still has the "M-10" engraved. This part was not changed. Meta data now shows the camera model as "M10-R". The serial number didn’t change either.

Regards,

Bud James

Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.

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I have no regrets trading in my M10 for a M10R.

The M10R sensor has an improved Dynamic Range other than just higher in resolution. 
Especially in Landscape Photography application where there are usually shadow and highlight within the frame, the M10R manages highlight blowouts much less and allows more highlight recovery in post processing.

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On 10/5/2020 at 2:53 PM, Steven said:

quick update though, although I don't want to hijack the thread. 

I just tried my 35mm Lux ASPH on my brand new a7siii with the metabones M to E adapter. A few observations: 

-The photos seemed excellent to me, even with the 12mp sensor. 

-The focusing experience was excellent as well, as the focus assistant of the a7siii is meant to act like a cine camera. In fact, the focus peaking was very reliable with my lux. 

-I tried to take a video with the lux mounted on the a7siii and OH MY GOD. It was an orgasm. The image I got out of it is like nothing ive seen before from a mirrorless. It looked to my eyes like if I was shooting a Hollywood movie with an ARRI

I definitely need to test this out some more...

PS. This won't stop me from upgrading to the m10r of course....

FWIW, I've used/use the latest versions of 24, 35, 50 Summilux lenses on the 61Mp Sony A7rIV with good results. I was very surprised to see how well the 24mm performed on the Sony.  Of course, I prefer M lenses on the M10. However from what I read, the wider M lenses and one of the 28mm seems problematic on the thick Sony sensor. 

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19 minutes ago, LBJ2 said:

FWIW, I've used/use the latest versions of 24, 35, 50 Summilux lenses on the 61Mp Sony A7rIV with good results. I was very surprised to see how well the 24mm performed on the Sony.  Of course, I prefer M lenses on the M10. However from what I read, the wider M lenses and one of the 28mm seems problematic on the thick Sony sensor. 

Yes, for midrange lenses it seems to work well. I actually just conducted a Sony A7SIII (with a 35 lux ASPH pre FLE, and a 35 Nokton 1.4 MCII) versus M10P (same lenses, obviously) unscientific photo (blind) tests. 

Very interesting results, to say the least. 

Allow me to redirect towards that very very passionating thread: 

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/314500-24meg-verses-40meg-aesthetic/?do=findComment&comment=4070557

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On 10/23/2020 at 1:12 PM, budjames said:

It was done in late July last year. 

Yes, they replaced the screen, silent shutter and the top plate. It is an M10-P with exception of the hot shoe still has the "M-10" engraved. This part was not changed. Meta data now shows the camera model as "M10-R". The serial number didn’t change either.

Regards,

Bud James

Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.

Thank you sir!!

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On 9/24/2020 at 10:58 AM, AlanJW said:

Sorry I am late to this thread, but IMHO the M10-R sensor is a great improvement over the the M10.  It is not the megapixels, it is the way it captures.  It isn't just improved DR;  the highlight capture is superb. which is a big improvement (fewer blown highlights) while maintaining very good shadow detail.  I expose for the highlights anyhow but this camera produces files thatr are easy to work with in ACR, and it has the quiet shutter of the 10-P.   Contrary to one post above, I see no difference in sharpness. I have zero regrets having traded in a M-10P.   But really, could one say it is a necessary upgrade?  No more than any other M upgrade.  GAS, yes, but GAS is a non-fatal addiction.

The disadvantage of course is file size and the need for storage space and perhaps more computing power  (so far, my seven year old quad core Mac Pro is quite adequate).

 

I'm using an M246P and trying to decide on an 10-P or 10-R.  The higher mega pixels will come in handy for cropping but I'm mainly after better highlight recovery and ISO performance.  An upgrade to the P is in my budget but to the R it's doable but is at the ceiling.  Is the ISO performance of the R so much better than the P that you would recommend the R?  Do you get an additional full-stop?  From a practical standpoint, is the improved ISO/noise reduction performance a tipping point?  

BTW, I live in an area that it's impossible to do a hands-on comparison.  

 

 

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4 hours ago, RayD28 said:

I'm using an M246P and trying to decide on an 10-P or 10-R.  The higher mega pixels will come in handy for cropping but I'm mainly after better highlight recovery and ISO performance.  An upgrade to the P is in my budget but to the R it's doable but is at the ceiling.  Is the ISO performance of the R so much better than the P that you would recommend the R?  Do you get an additional full-stop?  From a practical standpoint, is the improved ISO/noise reduction performance a tipping point?  

BTW, I live in an area that it's impossible to do a hands-on comparison.  

 

 

Hi RayD28,

I don't have the R but have used the M246 for a few years and currently have shot about 10k frames on my M10P. My(free😀)advice is that if you tend to crop a lot then the M10R will be a worthwhile move for you.I have never had an issue with blown highlights on either the M246 or he M10 P and I generally overexpose by a half stop. 

All the black and white images on my site (link below) were shot on the 246. The color images are from various digital M cameras  - link takes you to an M10 image followed by about 5 more.

If on the other hand you are routinely having exposure problems then the M10R is worth considering 

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