Leica M10-R: New M-Flagship with 41 MP Sensor

[typ3656]

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7 hours ago, nicci78 said:

Because of something called exchange rate.

Old product priced may be stuck to former exchange rate. However M10-R will be priced according to nowadays rate. 
 

in Eurozone the price hierarchy is well established :

- M10 Monochrom the highest
- M10-R 
- M10-P
- M10 the lowest priced  

 

 

 

Exchange rate can’t fully explain this, especially from a common-sense perspective. Assuming you’re in North America, think of the last time you looked at the prices of European vehicles. When did an older model ever cost more than the latest model to be released? Never. In an electronics shop, when did a TV from 3 years ago cost more than the latest model? Never. Why doesn’t the exchange rate in these instances dictate past, present, and future pricing?

If business owners are trying to flog an M10 (original) for MORE than the M10-R, that tactic mightn’t work. You’d think they would decrease the price of the M10 to sit even just $100 below the M10-R, no?

Or is Leica so strict with their minimum pricing standards worldwide that they’re okay with this unusual pricing hierarchy in certain countries?

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[setuporg]

On 7/16/2020 at 12:06 PM, Arrow said:

Jet another M camera you cannot load with film .................not! 🤪

I just got a cool Xpan II that can!  It even feeds it back to the cassette so you can reload mid-roll!  And all motorized!:)

[MarkP]

1 minute ago, setuporg said:

I just got a cool Xpan II that can!  It even feeds it back to the cassette so you can reload mid-roll!  And all motorized!:)

Fabulous camera 🙂

[darylgo]

59 minutes ago, setuporg said:

I just got a cool Xpan II that can!  It even feeds it back to the cassette so you can reload mid-roll!  And all motorized!:)

I'm jealous, but hope you enjoy the camera.  

[jonoslack]

On 7/16/2020 at 4:36 PM, Maddox said:

I have an M10-P relatively new.  Can this be upgraded at factory to M10-R ?  Wie viel?

 

I don't think so - I did ask about it but I was told that there were changes required to the body, and that there isn't room for the new sensor in the M10

best

Jono

[Martin B]

I remember tough discussions I had especially with one moderator here about implementing a high MP FF sensor into a rangefinder camera (jpaav). I questioned in the Leica online forum why Leica shooters on one hand want often to have the best high resolving glass but limit themselves with 24 MP sensor resolution. I suggested > 3 years ago that Leica approaches this similar to Sony by installing parallel product lines to choose from - what we seen similarly with the A7, the A7R, and A7S lines. Maybe even a monochrome line by itself. I was mostly booed for this suggestion. Now Leica did exactly this - the M10(-P), the M10-M, and M10-R to choose from.

Following the high res FF sensor market closely for many years now, I predict that the M10-R will become a big success for Leica no matter of initial people stating that the high res is not needed. Let's get real: this will be the new standard sensor resolution in upcoming years. But 24 MP might be sufficient also for many others especially when being price considerate.

Edited July 18, 2020 by Martin B

[microview]

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On 7/16/2020 at 7:42 PM, rivi1969 said:

Because of the ugly fake lever I guess.

One on-line M10R reviewer says the camera would be more pleasing in the hand if it had the fake lever!

[SrMi]

1 hour ago, Martin B said:

I remember tough discussions I had especially with one moderator here about implementing a high MP FF sensor into a rangefinder camera (jpaav). I questioned in the Leica online forum why Leica shooters on one hand want often to have the best high resolving glass but limit themselves with 24 MP sensor resolution. I suggested > 3 years ago that Leica approaches this similar to Sony by installing parallel product lines to choose from - what we seen similarly with the A7, the A7R, and A7S lines. Maybe even a monochrome line by itself. I was mostly booed for this suggestion. Now Leica did exactly this - the M10(-P), the M10-M, and M10-R to choose from.

Following the high res FF sensor market closely for many years now, I predict that the M10-R will become a big success for Leica no matter of initial people stating that the high res is not needed. Let's get real: this will be the new standard sensor resolution in upcoming years. But 24 MP might be sufficient also for many others especially when being price considerate.

Right now, the 24Mp M10 costs as much as the 40Mp M10-R. One can argue that the update to M10-R from M10 is unnecessary; However, I do not see why someone would buy a new 24Mp version if both cost the same. Sony's 24Mp model is much cheaper than Sony's high resolution model, and therefore they can coexist.

[graphlex]

3 hours ago, jonoslack said:

I don't think so - I did ask about it but I was told that there were changes required to the body, and that there isn't room for the new sensor in the M10

best

Jono

Maybe the M10-D would have enough room for the needed modifications...

[rivi1969]

2 hours ago, microview said:

One on-line M10R reviewer says the camera would be more pleasing in the hand if it had the fake lever!

I enjoyed very much the lever on the Epson R-D1 but that was there for a reason. In this case I think is as fake as the Kravitz brassing edition camera!

[Malvolio]

5 hours ago, SrMi said:

Right now, the 24Mp M10 costs as much as the 40Mp M10-R. One can argue that the update to M10-R from M10 is unnecessary; However, I do not see why someone would buy a new 24Mp version if both cost the same. Sony's 24Mp model is much cheaper than Sony's high resolution model, and therefore they can coexist.

The case is very different here in Australia - for reasons best left to Leica to explain, the cost of the M10R here is $13500AUD whereas the M10 is still available for just under $10,000AUD.

 

Can someone explain to me the price difference in Australia whereas in the US it appears the M10R is only a slight premium (hundreds of dollars) over the M10?

[darylgo]

Today I had a chance to shoot the M10-R.  It's quite impressive as is the M10-P.  The camera is really solid, shoots fast.  Here's the long exposures with iso.  Iso 100,200 is 16 min, 400 is 8 min, 800 is 4 min, 1600 is 125 sec, 3200 is 60 sec, 6400 is 32 sec, 12800 is 16 sec, 25000 is 8 sec.  These numbers are straight from the rear lcd, no tests were run to check these.  

 

 

[david strachan]

It's not a recent model price fright.

When i bought my M-P (typ 240) seemed i paid a huge premium for camera, viso and another battery.. I'm talking couple thousand dollars here.

Leica just routinely jacks up the prices every model, and gives little thought to different country exchange rates.

While i really enjoy Leica stuff, and the Forum... I'm on my last run with cameras and lenses sadly...after nearly 8 years of passion.

..

Edited July 19, 2020 by david strachan

[hillavoider]

6 hours ago, david strachan said:

It's not a recent model price fright.

When i bought my M-P (typ 240) seemed i paid a huge premium for camera, viso and another battery.. I'm talking couple thousand dollars here.

Leica just routinely jacks up the prices every model, and gives little thought to different country exchange rates.

While i really enjoy Leica stuff, and the Forum... I'm on my last run with cameras and lenses sadly...after nearly 8 years of passion.

..

I agree, m lenses I’ll always covet, but sure enough some manufacturer will come up with a mirror less m mount back for a tenth of the price just like the sigma l mount back. Pixii have come close, but not close enough 

nikon z mount are pretty good

current pricing for a Leica m body only is the equivalent of a deposit on a home 

Edited July 19, 2020 by hillavoider

[peterinkingston]

4 hours ago, hillavoider said:

I agree, m lenses I’ll always covet, but sure enough some manufacturer will come up with a mirror less m mount back for a tenth of the price just like the sigma l mount back. Pixii have come close, but not close enough 

nikon z mount are pretty good

current pricing for a Leica m body only is the equivalent of a deposit on a home 

I have a Leica M6 (nonTTL) and Fuji X100F. I would shoot film all day eveyday but would like to shoot at night in low light. (Funny story - I went on a trip to Sweden and tried to shoot the northern lights  a while ago. It was -30C, my film snapped in my M6 and the batteries went flat in my then Fuji XT-1.)

I love using different analogue lenses (Leica 35mm, Zeiss, Pentax SMC, Fuji and others); they all have their plus points like the colours, sharpness Bokeh etc.

I would like to do astral photography so of course I would like a Leica M10-R.

I'm thinking of buying 2nd hand M10-P but the idea of 40MP and 16 minutes sounds erm... like it is worth selling a kidney for.

Leica. Please, please please make a 10-RP that has the engraving 'Poor man's Leica' on the top and charge hafl the price?

Pretty please ?

Peter

[Fontan]

I got a Pentax 645Z and it's over 50mp. For me, it's getting to a point where the enormity of the file sizes is becoming a pain in the butt. I hit "import" button, mixes a drink, maybe finish a drink, and by the time all files are down loaded I am often too tipsy. I am not printing as large as I used to, and 24mp right now is the sweet spot for me, and just not too enthusiastic about having to deal with 40mp . . . . .  Maybe it's time for a new computer. 

[microview]

7 hours ago, hillavoider said:

current pricing for a Leica m body only is the equivalent of a deposit on a home 

Not where I live, where a two-bed flat in N London would set you back £1.5m.

[Guest]

Now that higher MP is actually important seemingly why is the M10R lagging behind the older 47mp Q2?

Pretty sure other cameras as well but not really up on which ones.

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[Jeff S]

30 minutes ago, steve 1959 said:

Now that higher MP is actually important seemingly why is the M10R lagging behind the older 47mp Q2?

Pretty sure other cameras as well but not really up on which ones.

The Q2 and SL2 sensors were sourced as part Leica’s partnership with Panasonic and its 47 MP S1R.  The M10-R sensor, although lower MP, is newer technology, based on the sensor wafer/architecture for the Leica S3, and also included in the M10 Monochrom.  There’s a lot more to sensor technology, and image quality, than MP count.  A lot of this is covered well in various other forum threads related to the M10R, including links to various reviews and videos.  
 

Jeff

[rivi1969]

On 7/18/2020 at 10:42 PM, david strachan said:

It's not a recent model price fright.

When i bought my M-P (typ 240) seemed i paid a huge premium for camera, viso and another battery.. I'm talking couple thousand dollars here.

Leica just routinely jacks up the prices every model, and gives little thought to different country exchange rates.

While i really enjoy Leica stuff, and the Forum... I'm on my last run with cameras and lenses sadly...after nearly 8 years of passion.

..

David, what do you mean you are sadly on your last run with cameras??? I am intrigued, and I didn’t know you also have an M240.

Cheers,
Ricardo