Leica M10-R: New M-Flagship with 41 MP Sensor

[NZDavid]

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9 hours ago, M10 for me said:

Shouldn't you compare the prices of the P to the R not the basic M10 which has no new shutter nor tough screen . . . The R is actually the P (some differences in the body as we read) with the new sensor.

I just looked at the Swiss prices: P and R have same price and 10% higher than basic M10. So you are fully free to choose 24 or 40 Mpix. I am sure that the R wins the race against the P. If I would stand at the counter and had to choose I would go to the safe side. No doubt. For me things like buffer or speed are of no importance. If speed is needed I never take the M anyway.

May main criticism is the staggering price variation in different countries -- a 29% premium here for the M10-R over the M10 but only a 16.6% premium in Germany, according to posted prices. The M10-R costs 19% more than the M10-P here but only 6.5% more in Germany.   

[Guest]

56 minutes ago, Dr No said:

This camera has been almost a decade coming and Leica has received an endless tirade of criticism for that.

I have not read much hype, just excitement over actual gains and developments that some thought would never happen. Credit where credit is due.

For me, this makes the M my dream camera and I can use what I think are the best lenses in the world on it. If this were the case for you I'm sure you would also be happy.

It also comes at a time when many were discussing the end of the road, the shelving of the M. Clearly not the case.

If you would rather read Leica bashing go to every other forum and photography site where you can read to your heart's content.

Its only your dream camera until a 50mp M comes out though.

It was already my dream camera.

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[Dr No]

38 minutes ago, steve 1959 said:

Its only your dream camera until a 50mp M comes out though.

It was already my dream camera.

Weird flex, but ok. That is a strange perspective. 😆

[Tailwagger]

3 hours ago, NZDavid said:

May main criticism is the staggering price variation in different countries -- a 29% premium here for the M10-R over the M10 but only a 16.6% premium in Germany, according to posted prices. The M10-R costs 19% more than the M10-P here but only 6.5% more in Germany.   

Pricing is quite strange in the US, with the 10-M/R cheaper than the P and only a few % over the M10. 

[Tailwagger]

4 hours ago, Chaemono said:

I took some of my best pictures with the M10 and I really liked the files when properly exposed. 

As have I. I'm not sure I ever took a worthwhile photo before I bought one, to be honest. I think you'll find things a bit easier. The latitude in the highlights, is much better. Its easier to find a workable compromise in scenes with high dynamic range.  

For years, Sony advocates have shuffled through here, complaining that the M needed to match the A7R, that it needed a well endowed sensor. Why? Simply because the body was a bit of an abomination? Or because they just wanted to spend double to quintuple the money?  The only real reason I could postulate was that for whatever reason they required more pixels, but the Sony results were simply unsatisfying. M look, Sony acuity, if you will. I put that dissatisfaction with the Sony, therefore, largely down to optics, not sensors.  The Sony's fabulous sensors where just highlighting how uninspired the lenses you had to attach to it were.

The thing that has me excited about the 10-R, and I hope you and others also find to be true, is that each of my optics that I've tested so far, old and new has a different level of clarity and micro-contrast that previously had gone unnoticed. My Mandlers just seem to ooze even more Mandler.  My 50 'lux begins to bloom almost like a Nocti when wide open. And again, this isnt just about the increase in pixel count, though I imagine it is in play. There is something different here which, software aside, I'm guessing has to do with the new cover glass. Perhaps I'm delusional, I doubt what I'm describing is at all measurable, but to my eye the M10-R renders in a way that makes the SL2 look quite digital by comparison.  Real to me, imaginary to some, Leica glow on full display. Ghosts in the new machine or in my elderly head? Dunno, but I don't really care as I genuinely like the feel of the images coming out of this camera, which is the thing that tends to lead to some of those best photographs.  

[SrMi]

13 minutes ago, Tailwagger said:

As have I. I'm not sure I ever took a worthwhile photo before I bought one, to be honest. I think you'll find things a bit easier. The latitude in the highlights, is much better. Its easier to find a workable compromise in scenes with high dynamic range.  

For years, Sony advocates have shuffled through here, complaining that the M needed to match the A7R, that it needed a well endowed sensor. Why? Simply because the body was a bit of an abomination? Or because they just wanted to spend double to quintuple the money?  The only real reason I could postulate was that for whatever reason they required more pixels, but the Sony results were simply unsatisfying. M look, Sony acuity, if you will. I put that dissatisfaction with the Sony, therefore, largely down to optics, not sensors.  The Sony's fabulous sensors where just highlighting how uninspired the lenses you had to attach to it were.

The thing that has me excited about the 10-R, and I hope you and others also find to be true, is that each of my optics that I've tested so far, old and new has a different level of clarity and micro-contrast that previously had gone unnoticed. My Mandlers just seem to ooze even more Mandler.  My 50 'lux begins to bloom almost like a Nocti when wide open. And again, this isnt just about the increase in pixel count, though I imagine it is in play. There is something different here which, software aside, I'm guessing has to do with the new cover glass. Perhaps I'm delusional, I doubt what I'm describing is at all measurable, but to my eye the M10-R renders in a way that makes the SL2 look quite digital by comparison.  Real to me, imaginary to some, Leica glow on full display. Ghosts in the new machine or in my elderly head? Dunno, but I don't really care as I genuinely like the feel of the images coming out of this camera, which is the thing that tends to lead to some of those best photographs.  

Is your impression based on viewing on the screen, or is it also based on prints?
I just got the M10-R and the raw files seem special when viewed on the screen, but I have not shot much with it yet.

[Tailwagger]

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39 minutes ago, SrMi said:

Is your impression based on viewing on the screen, or is it also based on prints?
I just got the M10-R and the raw files seem special when viewed on the screen, but I have not shot much with it yet.

Have neither had the time nor the material worthy at this point, so yes, purely screen. To be honest, I had already been developing a backlog as I've been waiting for the new SC900 to drop for a while now. It could be a few weeks before I get back to anything serious. Whether or not this added enthusiasm will translate to paper or not certainly will be interesting, although I'm expecting the new Epson to play a significant role in that as well, so it might not ultimately be a fair comparison. 

[Jeff S]

54 minutes ago, Tailwagger said:

Have neither had the time nor the material worthy at this point, so yes, purely screen. To be honest, I had already been developing a backlog as I've been waiting for the new SC900 to drop for a while now. It could be a few weeks before I get back to anything serious. Whether or not this added enthusiasm will translate to paper or not certainly w ill be interesting, although I'm expecting the new Epson to play a significant role in that as well, so it might not ultimately be a fair comparison. 

I'm awaiting reviews on the P900 from trusted sources before committing.  New printer platforms can be tricky. With revised print head and feed mechanisms, I want to be sure there are no feed or clogging issues.  I'm not thrilled with the lower ink capacity (50 ml vs 80ml for P800), so will also like to hear about ink usage, especially given different droplet size and related technology. Kevin Raber at PXL should soon publish his review of the P700,  while Mark Segal will review the 900, but he hadn't received a P900 for review as of late June. Northlight has also been silent.

Jeff

[Tailwagger]

6 hours ago, Jeff S said:

I'm awaiting reviews on the P900 from trusted sources before committing. 

Indeed, me too. Not pre-ordered, just on permanent availability watch. My current printer is on its last legs, the Canon is just pushes the boundaries of size and weight with no roll option. The 800's pinwheels and tank switching always scared me off, so although I'm waiting too, the 900 is likely somewhat of a fete accompli. I suppose I might soldier on for a while and see how anon responds, but I'm not sure long I will be able to hold out. 

I assume the tank size was a compromise for the sake of the reduced footprint, though it is convenient for Epson that the P800's 60% more ink only costs 40% more.  I wish a few more film snobs would continue the old school trend by returning printing with the same level of ardor.  At this rate, I fear we are lucky to have any capability to print this large at home unless one is willing to take on all the hassles and expense of a large format printer. Which at this point, I'm not. 

[Jeff S]

37 minutes ago, Tailwagger said:

Indeed, me too. Not pre-ordered, just on permanent availability watch. My current printer is on its last legs, the Canon is just pushes the boundaries of size and weight with no roll option. The 800's pinwheels and tank switching always scared me off, so although I'm waiting too, the 900 is likely somewhat of a fete accompli. I suppose I might soldier on for a while and see how anon responds, but I'm not sure long I will be able to hold out. 

I assume the tank size was a compromise for the sake of the reduced footprint, though it is convenient for Epson that the P800's 60% more ink only costs 40% more.  I wish a few more film snobs would continue the old school trend by returning printing with the same level of ardor.  At this rate, I fear we are lucky to have any capability to print this large at home unless one is willing to take on all the hassles and expense of a large format printer. Which at this point, I'm not. 

My P800 has been running well since new, and my 3800 ran well for 7 years and was stilll fine when I upgraded. But they were built on similar platforms. Every once in a while, Epson produces a dud, like the 4900, which had bad head/clogging issues.  Its replacement, the P 5000 is a 17 inch machine, much bigger than the P900, but not a huge floor model like the 24 inch guys. I’ve also heard good things about the new Canon pro printers. I run ImagePrint with my Epsons, and they now support some Canon’s too.  So there are options if needed.

Jeff

[wlaidlaw]

I am astonished how much smaller it feels in my hands compared to the M240. Sorry about the fingerprints on the VF. It must have been when the FW was being updated. I am probably going to order one of Mr. Lim's black leather M10 half cases, as they have both a built in grip and an Arca compatible plate. I use one of these all the time with my CL. I will also get one of Steve's Thumbies, as even with this lighter camera, I need every assistance for steady holding with the arthritis shakes. I am now going to have to get all the colour ink carts back in my Epson 3880, as it has been sitting for the last 9 months with Piezoflush storage carts in it. 

To give credit where it is due, DHL got the camera from Beauly, North of Inverness in Scotland to me in the south of France between yesterday lunchtime and lunchtime today. It was even delivered in a proper DHL van by a very smartly uniformed young lady. 

Wilson

 

 

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[jonoslack]

3 hours ago, wlaidlaw said:

I am astonished how much smaller it feels in my hands compared to the M240. Sorry about the fingerprints on the VF. It must have been when the FW was being updated. I am probably going to order one of Mr. Lim's black leather M10 half cases, as they have both a built in grip and an Arca compatible plate. I use one of these all the time with my CL. I will also get one of Steve's Thumbies, as even with this lighter camera, I need every assistance for steady holding with the arthritis shakes. I am now going to have to get all the colour ink carts back in my Epson 3880, as it has been sitting for the last 9 months with Piezoflush storage carts in it. 

To give credit where it is due, DHL got the camera from Beauly, North of Inverness in Scotland to me in the south of France between yesterday lunchtime and lunchtime today. It was even delivered in a proper DHL van by a very smartly uniformed young lady. 

Wilson

Congratulations Wilson

I'm sure you'll be very happy together! 

[Massimike]

10 hours ago, wlaidlaw said:

I am astonished how much smaller it feels in my hands compared to the M240. Sorry about the fingerprints on the VF. It must have been when the FW was being updated. I am probably going to order one of Mr. Lim's black leather M10 half cases, as they have both a built in grip and an Arca compatible plate. I use one of these all the time with my CL. I will also get one of Steve's Thumbies, as even with this lighter camera, I need every assistance for steady holding with the arthritis shakes. I am now going to have to get all the colour ink carts back in my Epson 3880, as it has been sitting for the last 9 months with Piezoflush storage carts in it. 

To give credit where it is due, DHL got the camera from Beauly, North of Inverness in Scotland to me in the south of France between yesterday lunchtime and lunchtime today. It was even delivered in a proper DHL van by a very smartly uniformed young lady. 

Wilson

 

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Have you play with it for a while? I have the m240 too, very tempted to make the big leap but man it’s a kidney less on my left side. How does it behave respect to the big chunky typ240? 
 

[davidmknoble]

On 7/17/2020 at 7:05 AM, scott kirkpatrick said:

It's not discontinued, but will sell from stock.  Presumably they put them together until the supply of specialized parts (film advance, switch on the back, special case with no holes for the LCD) ran out.  Now they have a big order running for just one type of M10 case, and can fill it with M10R, P or M electronics as the market determines.  The key metric to keep a business flourishing is how quickly you get your money back with profit, and how little excess stock you need to save up to keep customers happy.  Having three models with almost the same parts and all at a high price, sounds like the Ms will be a good business, even before the celebrity models start coming out in a year or so.  M10-D's take longer to sell and have more unique parts.  If it seems the last 200 of them are moving too slowly, they can always slap some leopard skin covers on and find an environmentalist to honor with them, at a lifted price.  That's why I can wait for my M11-D.

I have to tell you I loved the first M-D and I love the M10-D.  I can live with 24mp in color and 40mp in BnW.  I wish the M10M was a D variant!  My batteries last longer and i have to rely on my metering skill, but I still get the EVF for long lenses.  The M10-R sounds like a great camera.  I'll use the S007 for landscape and wait for the M11-D as well!

[dkmoore]

On 7/22/2020 at 10:15 PM, Tailwagger said:

Have neither had the time nor the material worthy at this point, so yes, purely screen. To be honest, I had already been developing a backlog as I've been waiting for the new SC900 to drop for a while now. It could be a few weeks before I get back to anything serious. Whether or not this added enthusiasm will translate to paper or not certainly will be interesting, although I'm expecting the new Epson to play a significant role in that as well, so it might not ultimately be a fair comparison. 

My p900 was supposed to deliver This week was delayed again. I too have the M10R and I am looking forward to printing with the combo. 

[wlaidlaw]

8 hours ago, Massimike said:

Have you play with it for a while? I have the m240 too, very tempted to make the big leap but man it’s a kidney less on my left side. How does it behave respect to the big chunky typ240? 
 

It feels like the M240's little baby brother and much better for that. It actually feels smaller than my M7, which admittedly has a Motor-M on it. I have to say I don't see a huge improvement in the viewfinder so far but it may be more apparent in difficult conditions where previous ones would have suffered patch flare. The menu seems to be laid out in a fairly logical fashion, although Leica have succumbed to the modern tendency to make some menu items multi layers deep. My personal preference would be for a flatter menu structure, even at the expense of more pages in the main menu. Leica Fotos is quite slow to start up. On the plus side the wider dynamic range immediately noticeable and is impressive. More will become apparent during the next few day use. It may seem expensive but then I keep my Leicas for ever, so the amortised cost per annum is not so bad. I have family Leica cameras from the two previous generations, with the earliest a Model III from 1934 with a 5cm/f2,5 Hektor. I still have and use my 21st birthday present from the family, an M4, also bought on its release day in 1967. 

Wilson

[budjames]

On 7/24/2020 at 12:50 AM, dkmoore said:

My p900 was supposed to deliver This week was delayed again. I too have the M10R and I am looking forward to printing with the combo. 

I've had a P900 on order since announced from B&H Photo. I'm still waiting. I'm also on the waiting list for the M10R from Leica SoHo. 

I've been Epson 17" printers for years. Each new model brings improved quality and ease of use. I have had my P800 for about five years. I have printed everything from greeting cards to 16"x"20" prints, both color and B&W. Since switching to Leica from Fuji X about 3 years ago, the detail on large prints are amazing with the 24MP M10. I'm looking forward to print some 40MP images from the M10R.

Regards,
Bud James

Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.

[dkmoore]

1 hour ago, budjames said:

I've had a P900 on order since announced from B&H Photo. I'm still waiting. I'm also on the waiting list for the M10R from Leica SoHo. 

I've been Epson 17" printers for years. Each new model brings improved quality and ease of use. I have had my P800 for about five years. I have printed everything from greeting cards to 16"x"20" prints, both color and B&W. Since switching to Leica from Fuji X about 3 years ago, the detail on large prints are amazing with the 24MP M10. I'm looking forward to print some 40MP images from the M10R.

Regards,
Bud James

Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.

Mine is on order from B&H as well and I agree the print quality between the two should be astonishing.

Just an FYI on the M10R, they have been popping up on Leica USA's online store although I applaud you if you want to wait in line to give SOHO business.

[wlaidlaw]

I keep thinking about a P900 but my elderly Epson Stylus Pro 3880 is still working so well, I am reluctant to tempt fate and replace it. Epson seem to make by far the most satisfactory and reliable photo printers. Whenever I have strayed to HP or Canon for photo printers, I have bitterly regretted it. The only other good colour printers I had were a pair of Xerox Tektronix printers, one wax sublimation and one dye-transfer.

Sadly they were both killed by a mains power failure, followed by a number of false starts of reconnection where the power cut off again after a few seconds. This did not allow them to complete either their start up or shut down routine. The estimated cost of repair from Xerox was three times what I had paid for the pair from my company, after our parent replaced all our printers with HP laser, both B&W and colour. Eventually I got a modest amount of compensation from the power company as it was their fault.

I run my Epson 3880 in France via a 30 minute UPS, as the power at my house often switches off during thunderstorms, where I have fast gas switches with large anti-surge capacitors in the cellar to protect all the equipment in the house from lightning surges and spikes. The Epson 3880 does not like power cuts at all and without the UPS, you have to do a factory reset, if it was running during a power cut, whereas my HP Officejet 8100 just shrugs them off. 

Wilson

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[jwr50]

1 hour ago, wlaidlaw said:

I keep thinking about a P900 but my elderly Epson Stylus Pro 3880 is still working so well, I am reluctant to tempt fate and replace it. Epson seem to make by far the most satisfactory and reliable photo printers.

I have had the same experience with the Epson 3880 -- it just keeps putting out great results (with OEM inks).  I am just hoping the Epson doesn't stop producing the inks for the 3880 any time soon.