Jump to content

Leica M10-R: New M-Flagship with 41 MP Sensor


LUF Admin

Recommended Posts

Advertisement (gone after registration)

3 hours ago, TopDownDriver said:

Alright, regarding IBIS - not happening soon if ever.  The one reason why everyone adapts Leica lenses to their system is that they have a very deep flange distance to the sensor (27+mm).  If you wanted to create an IBIS system for the M camera you would also need to increase the thickness of the camera while keeping the flange distance - this would make for a very thick camera indeed.  Also, remember, the lenses are not electronically coupled and at best the lens detection is a guess once the shot is taken (and if you check the EXIF - often wrong).  IBIS needs to know the precise focal length prior to recording the shot so that is can shit the sensor accordingly.  Incorporating an EVF in body is also not a great idea as it would turn off many many Leica users.  The optional route is still best.

<snip>

The lens detection works flawlessly on my M10 when using coded lenses. The focal length is the relevant information needed for IBIS and is always correct. Only lens aperture is a guesstimate, but that is not part of lens detection.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

On 9/16/2020 at 12:38 PM, budjames said:

I own the M10P (factory converted M10) and the new M10-R.

After using the M10-R for the past few weeks, the biggest benefit I enjoy of the increase resolution is the ability to crop tighter and still have amazing detail and sharpness. My go to lens is the summicron 35mm followed by my APO Summicron 50mm.

In August last year, I took a family vacation for two weeks to Scotland and Ireland. I brought my M10 and the two lenses mentioned. My 35mm never left the camera. In post-processing, the greater resolution of the M10-R would have been beneficial on a few images.

I plan on taking my M10-R and my Summicron 35 and APO 50 on my next trip. My iPhone 11 is always with me for the family snapshots and GPS recording. This is an awesome travel kit for my needs. It all fits very nicely with ample extra space in my Billingham Hadley Pro 2020 bag.

Regards,
Bud James

Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.

Thanks for sharing! Would you say that beyond resolution, the M10R is still a worthy upgrade from the m10p in terms of it?

Link to post
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Steven said:

Thanks for sharing! Would you say that beyond resolution, the M10R is still a worthy upgrade from the m10p in terms of it?

Yes I would. The M10-R has a greater dynamic range. I cannot quantify the dynamic range difference, but I notice when processing the images the highlights have less tendency to be blown out and the shadows can easily be pulled to reveal amazing detail with very little noise. The files are a lot bigger than those from the M10-P, so if you shoot a lot, get ready for increasing your storage capacity.

I also own the SL2 and the results from the M10-R are very comparable.

Regards,
Bud James

Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

For me, I would not do this for the resolution bump alone.  If the dynamic range bump would help it's a yes.  The noise is slightly greater in the R, the ability to handhold without resulting movement requires better technique or a higher shutter speed.  A test drive would answer the question for you better than the specs alone, or for that matter my opinion, I don't know your requirements.  Lastly, I really enjoy shooting my older 24mp M bodies going back to the M240 and with all my lenses calibrated to it's rangefinder I'm reluctant to sell it, the images continue to be superb.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I read an opinion that with the smaller pixe size / higher number of pixels, it will not be advisable to use smaller apertures in general than F5.6 at most F8.

This would be the practical limit, beyond that the lens performance will deteriate on the camera (not by itself).

So then, is a Summaron 28mm F5.6 usefull at all? I stop down wide angles like 21mm and down quite a lot for depth and do not want the result to be blurred by diffraction problems. On the M240 I have no generic probles I see (apart from occasional horrible messy corners, now there we have a mechanism at work somehow)

What is the feedback from actual use?

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Advertisement (gone after registration)

On 10/14/2020 at 1:24 PM, Alberti said:

I stop down wide angles like 21mm and down quite a lot for depth and do not want the result to be blurred by diffraction problems. On the M240 I have no generic probles I see (apart from occasional horrible messy corners, now there we have a mechanism at work somehow)

What is the feedback from actual use?

 

I've been shooting landscape the past week with the M10-R and 21 SEM, 28 Cron Asph v2, 35 Lux FLE and 50 Lux Asph. I generally stop down between f/5.6 and f/8.0 and focus stack in PS. I use an App called FocusStacker which does a fantastic job of specifying the number of images and at what distances to focus for a given focal length and blur diameter, the latter dependent upon sensor resolution. For the M10-R, I have set the blur diameter between 10-15 micron. Note that as the blur diameter increases, fewer shots are required to focus stack and/or you can use smaller aperture. Having said this, I never exceed f/8.0. I also have an SL2 with 16-35, 35 APO and 75 APO L lenses, and I have to say that the 16x24 inch prints I've made from the M10-R compare exceptionally well to the SL2. Nose to the print, the detail is incredible with properly applied sharpening routines and workflows. Hope this helps to answer your question Alberti.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, jplomley said:

I've been shooting landscape the past week with the M10-R and 21 SEM, 28 Cron Asph v2, 35 Lux FLE and 50 Lux Asph. I generally stop down between f/5.6 and f/8.0 and focus stack in PS. I use an App called FocusStacker which does a fantastic job of specifying the number of images and at what distances to focus for a given focal length and blur diameter, the latter dependent upon sensor resolution. For the M10-R, I have set the blur diameter between 10-15 micron. Note that as the blur diameter increases, fewer shots are required to focus stack and/or you can use smaller aperture. Having said this, I never exceed f/8.0. I also have an SL2 with 16-35, 35 APO and 75 APO L lenses, and I have to say that the 16x24 inch prints I've made from the M10-R compare exceptionally well to the SL2. Nose to the print, the detail is incredible with properly applied sharpening routines and workflows. Hope this helps to answer your question Alberti.

Tripod or handheld for M10-R vs SL2?

Jeff

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just now, jplomley said:

Always on a tripod for landscape. Shutter triggered with a release cable (I put the phone away when photographing).

How do you decide which to use?  If you’re intending landscape, and hauling tripod, etc,  why not use the weather sealed SL2 system that has greater focal length flexibility, higher MP, arguably best lenses (except lack of wide primes)? Just curious. 
 

Jeff

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Jeff S said:

How do you decide which to use?  If you’re intending landscape, and hauling tripod, etc,  why not use the weather sealed SL2 system that has greater focal length flexibility, higher MP, arguably best lenses (except lack of wide primes)? Just curious. 
 

Jeff

This is exactly why I’ve not yet upgraded my M10 as I have an SL2, although there are times I’d rather have a more compact system.

Edited by MarkP
Link to post
Share on other sites

jplomley, thanks. I am a sort of ‘point and shoot’ guy, that is, like to undeliberately quickly take a snap of something that captured my intention. Severe postprocessing is something I do with pano’s in light room, but generally with my m240 mode all I do is make small adjustments to the exposure, vignetting (I have several uncoded lenses) - and give a slight boost to presence or saturation.

I found that the m240 is very sharp; the very small visible plane of focus makes it important to focus correctly; with the m40 (sic) it will be worse. The M8 alloed a more ‘relaxed use.

In the past I used very detailed film and with small apertures I saw effect - loss of detail, but maybe it was imagination; with TRI-X of course not; neither on the M9M at 1250 asa.

therefore - what are the real results at f11 and f22? I found no pertinent answers . . 

Edited by Alberti
Link to post
Share on other sites

On 10/15/2020 at 10:36 PM, Jeff S said:

How do you decide which to use?  If you’re intending landscape, and hauling tripod, etc,  why not use the weather sealed SL2 system that has greater focal length flexibility, higher MP, arguably best lenses (except lack of wide primes)? Just curious. 
 

Jeff

Hey Jeff, when I know the hike is 2 hours or more, I take the M10-R with 21-28-50. I wear a Billingham photo vest whose pockets are more than generous enough to hold a pair of M lenses in Op/Tech neoprene cases that don't add much in size (in fact they fit like a glove). Shutter release cable, a couple of spare batteries, Heliopan slim polarizer and iPhone all fit conveniently in the many pockets offered by the vest. I usually walk with the 28mm on the M10-R, itself on a neck strap which I place under the shoulder strap of the vest (no chance of the camera ever slipping off the shoulder). I put the 21mm optical finder in the hot-shoe of the camera which also has frame lines for 28mm, so it is very easy to quickly preview a scene for those focal lengths without ever having to turn on the camera. I've hiked over six hours with this set-up without fatigue, since with the vest the weight is evenly distributed and barely noticed. I'm using a RRS L-plate on the M10-R and a CF Gitzo pod with Arca Swiss Z1 ball-head. A very light but sturdy combination. If I'm hiking to a location under 2 hours, I carry the SL2 with 16-35 SVE and 75 L APO in a Think Tank back-pack. More than this and I have back-issues due to a previous L1-L2 herniated disc injury.

Edited by jplomley
  • Thanks 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, jplomley said:

Hey Jeff, when I know the hike is 2 hours or more, I take the M10-R with 21-28-50. I wear a Billingham photo vest whose pockets are more than generous enough to hold a pair of M lenses in Op/Tech neoprene cases that don't add much in size (in fact they fit like a glove). Shutter release cable, a couple of spare batteries, Heliopan slim polarizer and iPhone all fit conveniently in the many pockets offered by the vest. I usually walk with the 28mm on the M10-R, itself on a neck strap which I place under the shoulder strap of the vest (no chance of the camera ever slipping off the shoulder). I put the 21mm optical finder in the hot-shoe of the camera which also has frame lines for 28mm, so it is very easy to quickly preview a scene for those focal lengths without ever having to turn on the camera. I've hiked over six hours with this set-up without fatigue, since with the vest the weight is evenly distributed and barely noticed. I'm using a RRS L-plate on the M10-R and a CF Gitzo pod with Arca Swiss Z1 ball-head. A very light but sturdy combination. If I'm hiking to a location under 2 hours, I carry the SL2 with 16-35 SVE and 75 L APO in a Think Tank back-pack. More than this and I have back-issues due to a previous L1-L2 herniated disc injury.

Makes sense, thanks, Jeff.  My lower back herniated disc surgery was 30 years ago, so I can relate.  I skip the tripod these days, and am very appreciative of IBIS on the SL2; works for my style and subject matter.  I’m sticking with the M10 and MM for lighter walk-around shoots.  Good to have so many quality options.

Jeff

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm back in love with my M camera after getting my M10R. Looks like my SL2 needs to step aside for a while for now.

Below is M10R + WATE.

Masjid Sultan (untitled-1001325) by sillbeers15

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Having had all the digital Ms and SLs, I would say the M10R's sensor is by far the easiest to work on dynamic range especially high light details recover and noise control. The short side of no IBIS and Autofocus compared to SL2 but a much compact M body and most M lenses makes it great for Landscape & Travel photography.

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, sillbeers15 said:

Having had all the digital Ms and SLs, I would say the M10R's sensor is by far the easiest to work on dynamic range especially high light details recover and noise control. The short side of no IBIS and Autofocus compared to SL2 but a much compact M body and most M lenses makes it great for Landscape & Travel photography.

From many images I've seen,  "the M10R's sensor provides the nicest low-contrast image by far and is easy peasy to work on dynamic range especially shadow details recover'. 

I also note sometimes shadows tend to be on the warm side (like here; which I like), but other images have cool highlights (which I prefer not; but look, I am not systematical at all in my observations, and should not proceed in an inductive way ...)

Some experiences:

  • When I compare my wife's Fuji outcome, the amount of shadow astounds me, compared to the M240; so I would say, the Fuji 100 has a low contrast sensor output. 
  • even the M8 has more details in the shadow than the M240.
  • That said, I like my M240 images for its clarity and contrast but know that the results need a lot of light to be appreciated. 
Edited by Alberti
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...