Leica M10-R: New M-Flagship with 41 MP Sensor

[Jeff S]

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20 minutes ago, bilbrown said:

14 bit color, that is great news.

 

However the S typ 007 is 16 bit. This is a point for me on the sensor of the typ 007, and really the original M10.

I think the low light on the M10-R will be good, but at ISO 6400 I think the M10 will beat it.

 

The S007 and S3 are 14 bit, in a 16 bit container, as explained by David Farkas in the following thread, including his link to his Red Dot Forum article on the S007...

 

Jeff

[LUF Admin]

vor 13 Stunden schrieb Jeff S:

I don’t see anything in the press release that speaks to discontinuing the M10-D.  Source?

This was said during the press event on Tuesday.

vor 12 Stunden schrieb Likaleica:

It's in Andreas' interview with Stefan Daniel.

No it's not

Stefan mentioned the M10-D as part of the M10 family. This made me uncertain during the editing thus I asked Leica for confirmation.

Statement form Leica PR: M10-D will run out but without definite date, thus will be available in stores for a while.

Sorry for the confusion...

Andreas

Edited July 17, 2020 by LUF Admin
typo corrected

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[scott kirkpatrick]

My impression is that Stefan Daniel had a lot to do with the M10-D and strongly supports it.  It suits his sense of what Leica stands for, which he may have to defend from his Hermes-loving and celebrity-seeking bosses.  But since Leica probably now needs every M10 chassis that it can produce for M10-Rs and M10-Ms, I doubt that they will divert many to the M10-D, and the supply of faux film winders may be limited.  I have an M10-D.  I love it.  I am looking forward to an M11-D someday.

[Guest]

The M10R is a good move by Leica, it's going to be a very useful tool for those who feel they need the increased megapixels. I for one am happy that this was basically all the upgrade turned out to be from the regular M10/M10-P and nothing else significant was attempted or modified, ie; an EVF. The M is still a rangefinder and that for me is how it should stay whatever the latest iteration may be, now or in the foreseeable future. If they "EVF" a M they've lost me as a new M camera buyer.

Will I get a M10-R? Definitely not this year, even doubtful for next year too because my M10P does everything I need right now in regards to colour imaging on the M platform and does it very well. But if Leica does, down the road, offer an upgrade to the R from the P as they did with the M10 to the M10P then that might be tempting. Tempting but not necessarily something I'd need or do anyway.

 I have the M10-M and that camera's higher mp count makes sense for me in the way I use it, post cropping is a good part of my final framing and making an image work so it is my M of choice now when working on my own "stuff". The rumoured decision that Leica will discontinue the M10-D is sad but understandable as they will probably have to divert a lot of M production to the M10-R "Flagship" camera.....BUT I am very happy that I bought the M10-D a year or so ago, that's now a real "keeper". If anyone was "on the fence" about buying a M10-D now is the time to get one before the stocks of new cameras evaporate, if I didn't already have one that's what I would do before buying the M10-R because the D is a unique and wonderful digital M experience.

So, what I am happy about though is that after selling some cine equipment a few weeks ago I decided to order a new Leica MA and that should be arriving in a couple of weeks after I finish a movie gig in Paris. Money aside if my choice was to buy a M10-R or the MA it would be the MA, no question about it.

Edited July 17, 2020 by petermullett
spelling

[Erato]

It would be outstanding if the M10-R is not fluttering under 1/60 sec and the image quality is much greater than M10-P at ISO 3200/6400.
Perhaps M10-R is more than suitable for landscape photography?

[jaapv]

1 hour ago, Erato said:

It would be outstanding if the M10-R is not fluttering under 1/60 sec and the image quality is much greater than M10-P at ISO 3200/6400.
Perhaps M10-R is more than suitable for landscape photography?

Normally ISO performance is not improved by a megapixel hike. Rather the opposite. But who knows what sensor improvements were possible? 

[Paulus]

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vor 13 Stunden schrieb darylgo:

Forgot about the 16 minute exposure, and didn't mention dynamic range because it's a great unknown.  The longer exposure length could be helpful depending on it's falloff with higher iso.  I am thinking specifically of astrophotography, they also mention this aspect.  Previous models, the M240, could barely squeak out Milky Way photos with a f1.4 lens set to 8 seconds and iso 3200, certain lenses could not be used such as the 21mm Summilux because of the severe coma in the corners.  The 50mm Summilux is outstanding and images could be stitched to give a wide view with the 50mm perspective.  Astro is not what Leica designs the M but it is nice to have the capability.  

I have some doubts if it is possible to stitch by means of a 50 mm Summilux , maybe it would be possible with a 50 mm Summilux-M ASPH but a friend of mine who stitches photos for a living said to me, that my 50mm Summilux-M ASPH was not good enough in combination the M10 to stitch in such a way, that no faults would appear at the edges. With the M10-R the stitching would even be worse IMHO because of the very fine details. The Summicron 35mm ASPH does a better job here. But maybe it would work with the 50 Summilux-M because of the black universe in the corners? 

[Paulus]

vor 12 Minuten schrieb jaapv:

Normally ISO performance is not improved by a megapixel hike. Rather the opposite. But who knows what sensor improvements were possible? 

Stefan Daniel had me convinced a little bit by his words, but maybe it's better for me to wait and see...

I almost bought a M10 Monochrom this week, but the shopkeeper said to me to wait for a few days because something good was coming. Now he has to sell his Monochrom to someone else, I afraid. Really anxious if this M10-R will match my wishes for the still not appearing M11. 

Would be nice if the M10 lasted as long as the M6 😉.

Only downer is, that when this M10-R really approves to a lot of people the price of the lenses will also go up a 15%during the next decade : keep the price of the camera "acceptable" and raise the price of the "variable costs" . 

[Guest]

20 hours ago, fotocrazee said:

But why is the M10-D being discontinued ? 

Perhaps very few people bought it.No point in making something if it can not be sold at a profit. 

[scott kirkpatrick]

It's not discontinued, but will sell from stock.  Presumably they put them together until the supply of specialized parts (film advance, switch on the back, special case with no holes for the LCD) ran out.  Now they have a big order running for just one type of M10 case, and can fill it with M10R, P or M electronics as the market determines.  The key metric to keep a business flourishing is how quickly you get your money back with profit, and how little excess stock you need to save up to keep customers happy.  Having three models with almost the same parts and all at a high price, sounds like the Ms will be a good business, even before the celebrity models start coming out in a year or so.  M10-D's take longer to sell and have more unique parts.  If it seems the last 200 of them are moving too slowly, they can always slap some leopard skin covers on and find an environmentalist to honor with them, at a lifted price.  That's why I can wait for my M11-D.

[SrMi]

4 hours ago, Erato said:

It would be outstanding if the M10-R is not fluttering under 1/60 sec and the image quality is much greater than M10-P at ISO 3200/6400.
Perhaps M10-R is more than suitable for landscape photography?

What kind of fluttering under 1/60 sec are you thinking of?

[Likaleica]

7 hours ago, LUF Admin said:

This was said during the press event on Tuesday.

No it's not

Stefan mentioned the M10-D as part of the M10 family. This made me uncertain during the editing thus I asked Leica for confirmation.

Statement form Leica PR: M10-D will run out but without definite date, thus will be available in stores for a while.

Sorry for the confusion...

Andreas

Sorry.  I didn't hear him mention it.  Thanks for the clarification!

[typ3656]

Does anyone know why the “hierarchy pricing” of the M10 family is all over the place depending on country? You would think that this M10-R would be priced the highest (or at least same as the M10M), but on a few sites I’ve seen from North America (including BHPhoto), the listed M10-P costs more, and I found one where the M10 original costs more than the M10-R (yes, within the same site). Is this intentional, or does this mean that prices for the existing M10 family members will drop in price but to be reflected later for these areas? An oddity.

[SrMi]

6 hours ago, jaapv said:

Normally ISO performance is not improved by a megapixel hike. Rather the opposite. But who knows what sensor improvements were possible? 

I have seen that "megapixel hike" improves ISO performance with matched file dimensions, but not when looking at 100%. This seems to be the case with M10-R vs M10-P as well.

[mujk]

8 minutes ago, SrMi said:

I have seen that "megapixel hike" improves ISO performance with matched file dimensions, but not when looking at 100%. This seems to be the case with M10-R vs M10-P as well.

For some odd reason I came to think of this beauty https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_808_PureView from 2012 😀

[darylgo]

6 hours ago, Paulus said:

I have some doubts if it is possible to stitch by means of a 50 mm Summilux , maybe it would be possible with a 50 mm Summilux-M ASPH but a friend of mine who stitches photos for a living said to me, that my 50mm Summilux-M ASPH was not good enough in combination the M10 to stitch in such a way, that no faults would appear at the edges. With the M10-R the stitching would even be worse IMHO because of the very fine details. The Summicron 35mm ASPH does a better job here. But maybe it would work with the 50 Summilux-M because of the black universe in the corners? 

Hi Paulus,

Yes, the 50mm Summilux I was referencing is the Asph, I've never tried the 1959 version for astro but it is only a few minutes of time to do so and you never know what might occur, I'll have to give it a try.    

Stitching of the Milky Way doesn't require the great detail of a landscape image, many lenses can be used, coma is not acceptable to me.  

[Stripey Badger]

I wonder what the M11 will do that this doesn’t? More than 40mp is hard to justify when 24mp was more than enough for just about all of my shots. Which is why I've stayed with my 240 and watched all the upgrades go by. Not even been tempted.

Maybe IBIS? I can’t think of any other reason for selling my 240 and upgrading. I wouldn’t want 40mp without it.

[nicci78]

1 hour ago, typ3656 said:

Does anyone know why the “hierarchy pricing” of the M10 family is all over the place depending on country? You would think that this M10-R would be priced the highest (or at least same as the M10M), but on a few sites I’ve seen from North America (including BHPhoto), the listed M10-P costs more, and I found one where the M10 original costs more than the M10-R (yes, within the same site). Is this intentional, or does this mean that prices for the existing M10 family members will drop in price but to be reflected later for these areas? An oddity.

Because of something called exchange rate.

Old product priced may be stuck to former exchange rate. However M10-R will be priced according to nowadays rate. 
 

in Eurozone the price hierarchy is well established :

- M10 Monochrom the highest
- M10-R 
- M10-P
- M10 the lowest priced  

 

 

 

[Paulus]

vor einer Stunde schrieb nicci78:

Because of something called exchange rate.

Old product priced may be stuck to former exchange rate. However M10-R will be priced according to nowadays rate. 
 

in Eurozone the price hierarchy is well established :

- M10 Monochrom the highest
- M10-R 
- M10-P
- M10 the lowest priced  

 

 

 

In the Eurozone you have to buy your camera in Germany because of the 16% VAT instead of the 20/21% in the other countries at this moment see:

https://www.meister-camera.com/de/produkt/9692/leica-m10-r-schwarz

The M10 silver is going to leave us, so it's relatively cheap last year. Buyable for €5900 in most European countries if you were asking nicely. 

 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[nicci78]

Same price in France despite 20% VAT