Leica SL2 Firmware 2.0: 187 MP Multishot Mode

[BlackDoc]

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vor einer Stunde schrieb Arrow:

Will the Sigma Art L 70 2.8 DG Macro work with multishot? I just wonder about 1:1 macro options for the SL2.

Maybe, somebody has got some insight. Would be very much appreciated

I have tried multishot with my "good old" Apo Lanthar Macro 125mm - it works. But it seems that the lens reaches its technical limits. I do have better results with modern lenses.  This might probably be an important background info when using multishot.

[scott kirkpatrick]

I tried some boring test multishots with the 90-280 SL zoom at f/4 and at f/8.  Reading the fine print on cereal boxes from 10 m away.  F/8 does noticeably better.  I was checking as well to see if it made a difference whether I had turned off image stabilization before going into the multishot mode, just in case the OIS hadn't gotten the message.  I saw no difference.

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[Joe Colson]

I took a few test shots from our deck, testing the SL2 multi-shot feature on trees with leaf movement. Here's the scene (using the standard resolution file):

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I focused on the crape myrtle tree in the center of the frame. There was some leaf movement, especially in the trees just behind the crape myrtle.

Now a 100% crop from the standard rez file:

And a 100% crop from the multi-shot file:

I imported the photos into Lightroom, used Auto in the Develop module (making sure to use the same settings for both), then used Photoshop to produce the TIFFs and crops. No sharpening except the default LR sharpening.

My conclusion from this brief test is that multi-shot is usable for landscape scenes with some leaf movement. I could see artifacts in areas where there was moderate leaf movement. You'd have to pixel peep to see it, but it was there. Since the camera produces both a multi-shot file and a standard rez file with a single shutter click, you don't really have to choose between the two until you process the photos using a desktop display.

Joe

[michali]

Some more feedback 

4 hours ago, scott kirkpatrick said:

I tried some boring test multishots with the 90-280 SL zoom at f/4 and at f/8.  Reading the fine print on cereal boxes from 10 m away.  F/8 does noticeably better.  I was checking as well to see if it made a difference whether I had turned off image stabilization before going into the multishot mode, just in case the OIS hadn't gotten the message.  I saw no difference.

My experience is the same with the 90-280mm SL. Multishot mode automatically disables image stabilisation, if you have a look at the menu when in MS mode, Image Stabilisation is greyed out. 

Slightly different procedure with the Canon 400mm f4 DO USM II:   OIS has to be turned off manually on the lens.  BTW the quality & detail of image #2 is phenomenal.

Image #1:  SL2 & Canon 400mm OIS On    ISO100 f8 @ 1/200s

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Image #2:  SL2 & Canon 400mm OIS Off   ISO100 f8 @ 1/200s 

 

I think that the implementation of Multishot mode on the SL2 is superior to that which I had experienced with the S1R. Having said that, MS's uses are limited to very controlled situations.

 

Edited June 25, 2020 by michali

[rim_light]

Today I did a normal assignment where I didn't need the gps, but my iPhone connected without further ado to the SL2. Round about 1/5th of the pics had the gps information at the exifs.

[marcolinger]

vor 29 Minuten schrieb rim_light:

Today I did a normal assignment where I didn't need the gps, but my iPhone connected without further ado to the SL2. Round about 1/5th of the pics had the gps information at the exifs.

I made about 80 pictures during a trip yesterday. Only some are geotagged. Uncredible that Leica is unable to correct this problem. I have the impression tonhave bought amprototype.

 

[BernardC]

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5 hours ago, michali said:

Image #1:  SL2 & Canon 400mm OIS On    ISO100 f8 @ 1/200s

Keep in mind that it's an adapted Canon lens, so the SL2 might not be able to work with the OIS as well as it should.

[michali]

5 minutes ago, BernardC said:

Keep in mind that it's an adapted Canon lens, so the SL2 might not be able to work with the OIS as well as it should.

Based on my experience, the Canon's OIS works very effectively with the SL2.  Have a look at this post, I shot the Canon 400mm hand held at 1/25s & there's no motion blur.

In Multishot mode the SL2 automatically turns off Image Stabilisation, so it appears that Image Stabilisation & or OIS shouldn't be used with MS mode. 

 

 

[scott kirkpatrick]

12 hours ago, michali said:

...

My experience is the same with the 90-280mm SL. Multishot mode automatically disables image stabilisation, if you have a look at the menu when in MS mode, Image Stabilisation is greyed out. 

I think that the implementation of Multishot mode on the SL2 is superior to that which I had experienced with the S1R. Having said that, MS's uses are limited to very controlled situations.

 

I take a beta-tester's approach -- someone complained that they got fuzzier results with OIS lenses.  Yes, I see that stabilization (both IBIS and OIS, presumably) is greyed out when the multi-shot routines are in use.  Leica occasionally displays things that are not true, like the GPS icon when no information is actually being updated.  So I will only believe OIS has been turned off after making a quick test.

Edited June 26, 2020 by scott kirkpatrick

[BernardC]

18 hours ago, michali said:

Based on my experience, the Canon's OIS works very effectively with the SL2.  Have a look at this post, I shot the Canon 400mm hand held at 1/25s & there's no motion blur.

I am sure you are right. My point is that there may be unexpected behaviour in multishot mode with 3rd-party OIS (it's 3rd-party to the L-Mount partners, not to Canon of course).

[Photoworks]

Is there a way to turn of the IS from the zoom lenses from Leica , like the 24-90 and 90-280? it may explain why it is not doing so well in multishot

 

[SrMi]

3 hours ago, Photoworks said:

Is there a way to turn of the IS from the zoom lenses from Leica , like the 24-90 and 90-280? it may explain why it is not doing so well in multishot

 

Yes, you turn the lens IS on/off in the camera. It is automatically turned off when selecting Multishot. I do not think that anyone complained how 90-280 handles Multishot. I know mine works well. My 24-90 works well at 35mm, but not at 90mm. My 24-90 is going to Leica to be fixed.

[scott kirkpatrick]

After putting some time into testing multi-shot, I realize how stupid it is that Fotos remote control can't dispatch a multi-shot image.  There are two problems -- its list of drive settings doesn't include multishot, so you have to set that on the camera.  Second, when you set the other multiple shot options, such as bracketing or continuous shooting, and then press the shutter in Remote on Fotos, all that happens is you get a single shot, and the camera is reset to single shot.  Continuous shooting requires that the remote shutter button mean "start" when the shots are not running, and "stop" when they are.  I assume that is how video is controlled in the $50 version of Fotos, but I haven't subscribed.

Edited June 27, 2020 by scott kirkpatrick

[scott kirkpatrick]

Comparing IBIS and multishot on the SL2 and S1R:

short answer is that SL2 does a bit better on multishot because less artifacts; 

S1R does at least one stop better for me in handheld IBIS stillness, comparing the long zooms of the two series.

As a target for this I set up some cereal boxes, with tiny text and 300 dpi graphics, about 5 m away from a tripod (for comparing multishot) or a wall to lean on (for comparing IBIS power).  The text on the box is something like 5 point Arabic with diacritical marks, barely readable when you hold the box in your hand.  Here's the setup, slightly cropped from full frame:

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P1033205 by scott kirkpatrick, on Flickr

and a good shot with the Panasonic, S1R, Lumix 70-200/2.8 200 mm@f/5.6:

P1033204 by scott kirkpatrick, on Flickr

and with the SL2, Leica SL 90-280@200 mm, f/8

U1040114 by scott kirkpatrick, on Flickr

If you click through the two multi-shot clips, you will see that both resolve the underlying screen in the region of the cereal bowl, but the Lumix processing exaggerates it and adds some artifact.  The Leica result is pretty much what you see with an 8X loupe at the box itself.  The Lumix example is the best of several tries; in others the screen was not resolved well.  The Leica was more consistent.

I tested IBIS at this distance, on these two lenses/cameras changing ISO, keeping the aperture fixed at f/8, again shooting from 5 m distance, leaning against a wall, arms braced.  The SL2 failed to hold the image still at 1/8 sec, was usable at 1/15 - 1/25, and was sharp above 1/50 sec.  That's two stops below 1/focal length, a modest improvement.  The Lumix combination failed at 1/4 second, was good at 1/8 and up and was sharp to 400% enlargement at 1/15 sec and above. 

 

 

Edited June 27, 2020 by scott kirkpatrick

[SrMi]

2 hours ago, scott kirkpatrick said:

Comparing IBIS and multishot on the SL2 and S1R:

short answer is that SL2 does a bit better on multishop because less artifacts; 

S1R does at least one stop better for me in handheld IBIS stillness, comparing the long zooms of the two series.

As a target for this I set up some cereal boxes, with tiny text and 300 dpi graphics, about 5 m away from a tripod (for comparing multishot) or a wall to lean on (for comparing IBIS power).  The text on the box is something like 5 point Arabic with diacritical marks, barely readable when you hold the box in your hand.  Here's the setup, slightly cropped from full frame:

P1033205 by scott kirkpatrick, on Flickr

and a good shot with the Panasonic, S1R, Lumix 24-70/2.8 200 mm@f/5.6:

P1033204 by scott kirkpatrick, on Flickr

and with the SL2, Leica SL 90-280@200 mm, f/8

U1040114 by scott kirkpatrick, on Flickr

If you click through the two multi-shot clips, you will see that both resolve the underlying screen in the region of the cereal bowl, but the Lumix processing exaggerates it and adds some artifact.  The Leica result is pretty much what you see with an 8X loupe at the box itself.  The Lumix example is the best of several tries; in others the screen was not resolved well.  The Leica was more consistent.

I tested IBIS at this distance, on these two lenses/cameras changing ISO, keeping the aperture fixed at f/8, again shooting from 5 m distance, leaning against a wall, arms braced.  The SL2 failed to hold the image still at 1/8 sec, was usable at 1/15 - 1/25, and was sharp above 1/50 sec.  That's two stops below 1/focal length, a modest improvement.  The Lumix combination failed at 1/4 second, was good at 1/8 and up and was sharp to 400% enlargement at 1/15 sec and above. 

When testing IBIS, how many shots did you take at each shutter speed (stability is not a binary yes/no, but rather a probability, e.g., 1 in 3)?

Which lens was used for S1R ( S1R, Lumix 24-70/2.8 200 mm@f/5.6 ?) ?

Thanks!

[scott kirkpatrick]

 

2 hours ago, SrMi said:

When testing IBIS, how many shots did you take at each shutter speed (stability is not a binary yes/no, but rather a probability, e.g., 1 in 3)?

Which lens was used for S1R ( S1R, Lumix 24-70/2.8 200 mm@f/5.6 ?) ?

Thanks!

Sorry, there was a typo in my post, now fixed.  The natural comparison for both Multi-shot and IBIS is the two telephoto OIS zooms, 90-280 for Leica and 70-200 for Panasonic, using the higher quality Lumix lens, the f/2.8.  I kept both lenses either two stops above wide open or simply f/8.  There is EXIF on the Flickr site for all exposures.  I just shoot one shot when everything is working well and then 2-3 shots as the rendering softens.  I call it "OK" if 2 out of 3 work out, and "good, reliable, etc" if all 3 are sharp at 100%.  I am really pleased if they look good on all trials at 200%, viewed from the DNG in C1  or in Preview after rendering them at 100%.

Edited June 27, 2020 by scott kirkpatrick

[scott kirkpatrick]

The recent bad news about Olympus M43 reminded me that they have had stabilization since the E-1 (2003) and multishot high resolution  since the E-M1.  I still have an E-M1.ii and its best stabilized lens, the 12-100 OIS f/4.  I tried its stabilization, sitting, over a relatively short distance at a focal length of 100mm, the same field of view as the 200 for a full frame camera.  Exposures handheld at the wide angle end of a second or more are often cited with this combination.  But to compare with the Leica and Pansonic SL2 and S1R, I found that I was about as stable as Leica and one stop less than Panasonic at the same focal length.  

Olympus multishot algorithms produce a standard shot plus a 4X raw file and a 3X jpeg.  Here are crops from both.  The 6 or more year old algorithms handle edges without artifacts up to 400%.  Can you tell which is which?

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P6300032 by scott kirkpatrick, on Flickr

P6300032 1 by scott kirkpatrick, on Flickr

Edited July 1, 2020 by scott kirkpatrick

[DrM]

On 6/19/2020 at 4:22 PM, scott kirkpatrick said:

Yes, and most settings will be saved.  Your file numbers will reset to some hard to control alternative.  Fields of text, like copyright info and artist name, will be lost and you have to reenter.

Hi,

I had to ship the SL2 back and got it back today with the new firmware on it. All works very nice, but how do I get the camera to continue the file numbering where I left off? I tried using the card with the latest pics but it starts all over...

Best

Marc

[Mr.Q]

Considering that the camera needs to be mounted on a tripod for optimal results, what does multishot offer over a tried and true stack?

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[Joe Colson]

57 minutes ago, Mr.Q said:

Considering that the camera needs to be mounted on a tripod for optimal results, what does multishot offer over a tried and true stack?

In the case of multi-shot, the "stacking" is performed in-camera, resulting in a 187MP RAW file. Accompanying the multi-shot file is a standard resolution RAW file. Usually, a "tried and true stack" is produced in post-processing using multiple RAW files and an app, action or script. For example, the Sony a7RIV has pixel-shift and requires the use of the Sony app for stacking the RAW captures. You may be confusing multi-shot and pixel-shift with focus stacking.

Joe