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Yaakov

Leica MP 2019 batch 52XXXX scratching film.

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Posted (edited)

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Disclaimer:

I'm starting a new topic regarding the issues found in my newly purchased Leica MP, the purpose of this is to share any ideas that could lead to a solution,

this is not a rant about Leica lack of QC which we all know is becoming an issue.

After receiving my camera I run a roll of Kodak TriX 400, after developing the film I found a trace of scratches, I did several test with other films which I didn't develop (in case the scratches were being caused by my development process):

Bergger Pancro 400,

Ilford HP5+.

They all show the same type of scratches.

This is an undeveloped roll, https://ibb.co/RbxynrM

https://ibb.co/8xkfs17

I found several threads with people claim the source of this issues was the pressure plate so I checked mine in order the find anything that could be the reason, the screws in the plate don't match the position of the marks in the film and the surface of the plate in my camera feels smooth and flat, I wondered if maybe the reason could be the bridge that has the connection for the light meter but after more inspection it was obvious that the plate keeps the very flat and it does not touch that area.

I did another test in which I rub some film on the surface of the plate, to my surprise the film was very scratched, I did the same against the plate in my 1958 M2 and it didn't do a single one.

I also did a couple of prints to verify the scratches appear and unfortunately the scratches are visible even on a middle size print.

This is the print, the scratches appear in the top and the bottom https://ibb.co/VpKsdfb

Edited by Yaakov

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Sorry to hear that your brand new MP give those scratches on film.

You wrote that the MP pressure plate is clean but rubbing the film on it give scratches.

As you have M2, I suggest to figure out if the scratches can have origines elsewhere in the MP, when use normally, swap the backs.

If you have 100 ISO film or whatever speed used with meter or sunny 16, just try to make your usual process with MP+M2 back door.

I know (at my surprise) that most of the Leica M "back doors" are "compatible" with different M ( same size, older without ISO for metered M of course), I've tried out M-A/M5

swapping for fun, one relaxing day.

 

 

 

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Hi Yaakov - I am sorry to hear about your problem. I am one of those people who reported a faulty pressure plate from new. I did not want to risk sending it back to Wetzlar and having to wait 3 months or more before it would be returned. My local Leica specialist looked at it and it was only on the 2nd attempt that we discovered it was the pressure plate. I was replaced for a limited sum and that was the end of it. Good luck !

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8 minutes ago, a.noctilux said:

Sorry to hear that your brand new MP give those scratches on film.

You wrote that the MP pressure plate is clean but rubbing the film on it give scratches.

As you have M2, I suggest to figure out if the scratches can have origines elsewhere in the MP, when use normally, swap the backs.

If you have 100 ISO film or whatever speed used with meter or sunny 16, just try to make your usual process with MP+M2 back door.

I know (at my surprise) that most of the Leica M "back doors" are "compatible" with different M ( same size, older without ISO for metered M of course), I've tried out M-A/M5

swapping for fun, one relaxing day.

 

 

 

Thank you for your response, unfortunately the backs are interchangeable only between the ones that have a light meter, because of the connections the back are a little bit different, so I'm not able to put the M2's back on my MP to verify the issue.

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2 minutes ago, DickieT said:

Hi Yaakov - I am sorry to hear about your problem. I am one of those people who reported a faulty pressure plate from new. I did not want to risk sending it back to Wetzlar and having to wait 3 months or more before it would be returned. My local Leica specialist looked at it and it was only on the 2nd attempt that we discovered it was the pressure plate. I was replaced for a limited sum and that was the end of it. Good luck !

Thank you for the advice DickieT, I'm myself considering the same path, I order mine from Switzerland so I would to ship it there and then wait for then to send it to Germany and with the current situation that will take forever, my only worries would be losing my guaranty if I intent the place the plate locally 

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If the camera  is new and faulty it should just be replaced by the dealer. You shouldn't have to send a new camera back for repair. 

Of course the risk is that the next new one is also faulty........

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1 hour ago, earleygallery said:

 

Of course the risk is that the next new one is also faulty........

Judging by the large number of posts relating to this problem it would seem that all Leica film cameras are faulty, probably more faulty models than the number of cameras actually produced. Mine is perfect and a number of people that I know have M-As and MPs with no issues at all.

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Just now, Matlock said:

Judging by the large number of posts relating to this problem it would seem that all Leica film cameras are faulty, probably more faulty models than the number of cameras actually produced. Mine is perfect and a number of people that I know have M-As and MPs with no issues at all.

Yes there have been quite a few posts from people saying that their new Leica is scratching the film. 

It's good that some people have had perfect cameras but you seem to be implying that our friends here are telling lies? 

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6 minutes ago, Matlock said:

Judging by the large number of posts relating to this problem it would seem that all Leica film cameras are faulty, probably more faulty models than the number of cameras actually produced. Mine is perfect and a number of people that I know have M-As and MPs with no issues at all.

What are you trying to say? Looks like you are taking it personal, if your camera works enjoying it, but for people with the problem I'm only providing facts, I'm not bringing here anything else, please at least read the disclaimer.

The idea is not not start blaming the factory but by no means defend them, just to have people with this issue share with others having the same issue in order to find a possible solution.

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6 minutes ago, earleygallery said:

. It's good that some people have had perfect cameras but you seem to be implying that our friends here are telling lies? 

No, not at all but I think we need a little more information. Yaakov stated the pressure plate felt clean but still scratched the film which seem strange. I would suggest checking the plate with a Lupe, perhaps with a high intensity light source (at an angle) to see if there is something on the plate that causes the problem. He has posted a picture elsewhere  which appears to show two scratches so something should be visible with a close examination.

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3 minutes ago, Yaakov said:

What are you trying to say? Looks like you are taking it personal, if your camera works enjoying it, but for people with the problem I'm only providing facts, I'm not bringing here anything else, please at least read the disclaimer.

The idea is not not start blaming the factory but by no means defend them, just to have people with this issue share with others having the same issue in order to find a possible solution.

I am trying to help but without more evidence it is difficult to ascertain what is the problem. Have a look at my reply to earleygallery regarding the use of a Lupe, this may point you in the right direction. Hope you sort it out soon.

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Just now, Matlock said:

No, not at all but I think we need a little more information. Yaakov stated the pressure plate felt clean but still scratched the film which seem strange. I would suggest checking the plate with a Lupe, perhaps with a high intensity light source (at an angle) to see if there is something on the plate that causes the problem. He has posted a picture elsewhere  which appears to show two scratches so something should be visible with a close examination.

It perhaps the type of polishing applied to the plate its the cause, checking it closely it shows some texture I can't feel with my finger

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I will make a video showing the differences between the two finishes on the plates and post it here.

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1 minute ago, Yaakov said:

It perhaps the type of polishing applied to the plate its the cause, checking it closely it shows some texture I can't feel with my finger

Could be, but your picture showed a couple of straight lines which would, I think, be visible as they would have to stand proud of the plate to cause those scratches.

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11 minutes ago, Matlock said:

Could be, but your picture showed a couple of straight lines which would, I think, be visible as they would have to stand proud of the plate to cause those scratches.

almost all the scratches are straight lines that go horizontally from beginning to end (one of the pics I posted shows it clearly), more in the center and a bit above the sprocket holes, I suspected the 2 other places (metal bridge with the contacts for the LM and the part just before the film gets back to the canister) neither touches the film, I verified this by running a roll after removing the plate after the first 5-7 shots were taken (just to ensure the film was well align), I also did a similar experiment removing the back after some shots and going until the end and rewinding the film, in this case the film touches some parts of the 2 places I suspected but the film does not get scratched, only a few marks here and there.

Finally I put some electrical tape covering the plate and loaded some film just about 10 shots, I could see some marks showing the ends of the tape but the scratches didn't show up.

I'm also wondering maybe the plate surface is not the main or only issue, but maybe there just to much pressure from the plate.

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9 minutes ago, Yaakov said:

almost all the scratches are straight lines that go horizontally from beginning to end (one of the pics I posted shows it clearly), more in the center and a bit above the sprocket holes, I suspected the 2 other places (metal bridge with the contacts for the LM and the part just before the film gets back to the canister) neither touches the film, I verified this by running a roll after removing the plate after the first 5-7 shots were taken (just to ensure the film was well align), I also did a similar experiment removing the back after some shots and going until the end and rewinding the film, in this case the film touches some parts of the 2 places I suspected but the film does not get scratched, only a few marks here and there.

Finally I put some electrical tape covering the plate and loaded some film just about 10 shots, I could see some marks showing the ends of the tape but the scratches didn't show up.

I'm also wondering maybe the plate surface is not the main or only issue, but maybe there just to much pressure from the plate.

Interesting, you have certainly carried as many tests as possible. Obviously, under the present climate, it would be difficult to get anyone to carry out some further checks. It would seem that the only answer in the long run is a return to Leica but that could involve you being without the camera for quite some time. I am still a little puzzled by the fact that you are getting the straight lines but with no visible cause on the pressure plate as to make those scratches would need something to be standing proud of the plate, however small.

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25 minutes ago, Matlock said:

Interesting, you have certainly carried as many tests as possible. Obviously, under the present climate, it would be difficult to get anyone to carry out some further checks. It would seem that the only answer in the long run is a return to Leica but that could involve you being without the camera for quite some time. I am still a little puzzled by the fact that you are getting the straight lines but with no visible cause on the pressure plate as to make those scratches would need something to be standing proud of the plate, however small.

I'm uploading a video to YouTube, is not the best quality and its a bit hard to see but I filmed myself just basically rubbing a piece of film against the plate of both an M4-2 and my MP, I don't apply any pressure and its visible from the light reflection that the film is heavily scratched in person looks much worse like if some very "soft" sandpaper was applied, will post the link to the video here once it finishes uploading.

The best way to test this theory would be of course changing the plate but I don't want to do anything to the camera before I get any news from the dealer, using a back door from maybe a M6 of M7 should also do the trick.

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4 hours ago, DickieT said:

Hi Yaakov - I am sorry to hear about your problem. I am one of those people who reported a faulty pressure plate from new. I did not want to risk sending it back to Wetzlar and having to wait 3 months or more before it would be returned. My local Leica specialist looked at it and it was only on the 2nd attempt that we discovered it was the pressure plate. I was replaced for a limited sum and that was the end of it. Good luck !

Do you remember what was the specific issue with the plate, we are doing some research here.

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Posted (edited)

This is a video showing the differences between the plates surface. I apologize for the quality of the video.

 

Edited by Yaakov

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I have just tried the same test (with a M2 and a M-A) and in both cases not the slightest mark. Interesting.

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