Leica gear for film scanning?

[Jim B]

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I am using the Fuji gfx 100 with the 120 macro and a 20mm extension tube…. Seems to be working well,  and I want the 16 bit files… my biggest issue finding the right chemicals that will clear Fuji across ‘’ …… monobath was a waste of money, dumping that….. and switching to Ilford perceptol tomorrow.

 

[wlaidlaw]

I use my SL601 on the BEOON with a Schneider Kreuznach Componon S Green band 50mm/f2.8 enlarger lens. I tried with various Leica 50mm camera lenses but results were not great. If I did more of this, I would change the Schneider lens for a Rodenstock 50mm APO Rodagon, which is a little better than the Componon S in the corners, due to the near absence of chromatic aberration (a bit like the APO 35 Summicron v. the ASPH 35 Summicron). I have the SL direct connected with an HDMI cable to my M1 MacBook Air and have Capture One running with camera importing active, to receive and display the DNG's. I keep hoping that Phase One will make an action to convert colour negatives to positive but no luck so far, in spite of a number of requests. I do have a colour negative to positive action (Grain2Pixel) for Photoshop and it is by some margin the best yet but with room for further improvement. It is free/donate ware. 

Wilson

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[250swb]

I've not come across Grain2Pixel before, I've just looked at the videos and it looks very interesting.

I tend to use use either Color Perfect or Negmaster, or maybe I don't anymore. The reason we use these programmes is because Photoshop 'Invert' is rubbish, well it may have gotten much, much better without anybody noticing. I had a colour negative that just wasn't converting to a positive very well so out of desperation decided to give it a try manually, so I put the RAW file straight through ACR without any adjustments, pressed 'Invert' in Photoshop and I got a very pasty looking image, but pressing 'Auto Colour' and it was perfect! I'd fully expected to be playing around with the colour balance and contrast for an hour or two. For B&W it's similarly successful but instead of using 'Auto Colour' press 'Auto Contrast'. I'm not sure which aspect may have made the difference, the accuracy of my setup copying the negative with my Nikon Z7, ACR, or whether it really is 'Invert'. But for anybody without any reversal software it may be worth trying.

I should add that for very difficult negatives, under exposed, artificial lighting, etc. a proper reversal programme still works much better.

 

Edited July 4, 2023 by 250swb

[Doug A]

I started scanning with a Canoscan flatbed, and then with an Epson flatbed and then with a Plustek 7100, and finally with my digital camera scanning setup. Along the way I bought and used a lifetime copy of Vuescan. Unlike some other scanning apps Vuescan can be used to operate on existing files rather than scanning negatives to produce the files. 

When I scan color negatives with my Fuji X-T20 I set the camera White Balance to Auto and I set the Vuescan Color/Color Balance set to Auto Levels. The resulting colors are at least as good as I was able to produce when scanning color negatives with the Canoscan, Epson or Plustek. 

I offer this observation because I suspect that some people switching to digital camera scanning from another setup might also own a copy of Vuescan. 

Edited July 5, 2023 by Doug A

[jakontil]

On 7/4/2023 at 10:36 PM, 250swb said:

I've not come across Grain2Pixel before, I've just looked at the videos and it looks very interesting.

I tend to use use either Color Perfect or Negmaster, or maybe I don't anymore. The reason we use these programmes is because Photoshop 'Invert' is rubbish, well it may have gotten much, much better without anybody noticing. I had a colour negative that just wasn't converting to a positive very well so out of desperation decided to give it a try manually, so I put the RAW file straight through ACR without any adjustments, pressed 'Invert' in Photoshop and I got a very pasty looking image, but pressing 'Auto Colour' and it was perfect! I'd fully expected to be playing around with the colour balance and contrast for an hour or two. For B&W it's similarly successful but instead of using 'Auto Colour' press 'Auto Contrast'. I'm not sure which aspect may have made the difference, the accuracy of my setup copying the negative with my Nikon Z7, ACR, or whether it really is 'Invert'. But for anybody without any reversal software it may be worth trying.

I should add that for very difficult negatives, under exposed, artificial lighting, etc. a proper reversal programme still works much better.

 

Hi steve, why not use negative lab pro? 
 

On 7/5/2023 at 7:23 AM, Doug A said:

I started scanning with a Canoscan flatbed, and then with an Epson flatbed and then with a Plustek 7100, and finally with my digital camera scanning setup. Along the way I bought and used a lifetime copy of Vuescan. Unlike some other scanning apps Vuescan can be used to operate on existing files rather than scanning negatives to produce the files. 

When I scan color negatives with my Fuji X-T20 I set the camera White Balance to Auto and I set the Vuescan Color/Color Balance set to Auto Levels. The resulting colors are at least as good as I was able to produce when scanning color negatives with the Canoscan, Epson or Plustek. 

I offer this observation because I suspect that some people switching to digital camera scanning from another setup might also own a copy of Vuescan. 

I found the plustek which i was using 8200SE to be quite capable, especially compared to my v600 only reason i use flatbed because i still shoot medium format

but the plustek is quite time consuming, hence been using my digital setup with M, macro adapter and a 50 apo cron.. just got the nikkor micro 105mm and an adapter as suggested by @250swb

the easyvaloi is quite tempting especially i havent used copy stand, only workaround tripod thus far

[250swb]

5 hours ago, jakontil said:

Hi steve, why not use negative lab pro? 

Because Negative Lab Pro only works with an abomination called Lightroom and not with Photoshop 😞

As for the Valoi Easy 35, well it's a lot of money to spend and limit yourself to 35mm, I mean you'll need a medium format camera at some point won't you? 😄

Edited July 6, 2023 by 250swb

[wlaidlaw]

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The problem with the Plustek scanners is that they don't have variable focus. it is set at manufacture. Whereas some are spot on, some like my 7100, are not. I never got a really sharp scan my 7100 so gave up on it. I was also not a fan of the Silverfast software, supplied with the Plustek, where the version is locked to the machine and will not work on other scanners, even if like me you paid for an upgrade.

I have another method of scanning apart from the BEOON, which is to use a Leica R bellows 16880 (also known by its Novoflex number of BR-2) for the ROM R cameras and lenses. However I use it on my SL601 with a Leica R to L adapter, a Noflexar 60mm R mount Macro lens and a Novoflex CASTEL-COP-DIGI slide/negative holder. The advantage of this over the BEOON is that you can use natural light rather than an LED light tablet for illuminating the slide/negative, which I think gives better colour reproduction. The Noflexar lens has a very flat image plane and reproduces the corners and edges of the slide very sharply. 

Wilson

[Doug A]

8 hours ago, 250swb said:

Because Negative Lab Pro only works with an abomination called Lightroom and not with Photoshop 😞

As for the Valoi Easy 35, well it's a lot of money to spend and limit yourself to 35mm, I mean you'll need a medium format camera at some point won't you? 😄

No, I'm done with medium format. I've settled on 8" by 12" for my "big" prints and I am getting the look I want with 35mm cubic grain ISO 400 B&W film and a high acutance developer. 

And I spent more than the  cost of the easy35 for dinner for six at the Lobster House in Cape May. 😀

Edited July 6, 2023 by Doug A

[jakontil]

On 10/10/2021 at 2:48 PM, 250swb said:

Or buy a cheap Nikon F to Leica M adapter (or adapter for any other secondary system you use) and use a dedicated manual micro/macro lens, either a Nikkor 60mm Ais or 55mm Ai, etc. 

Scanning negatives isn't just about close up photography, it is about close up flat field photography where you have no distortion, you are copying the flat negative to the flat sensor. I doubt a 135mm Telyt or 90mm Summarit plus Elpro would deliver that flat field, not to mention the height you will have your copy stand at to achieve focus. Somebody can put me right but I suspect the reason the Elpro manual recommends f/16 is because of inherent distortion across the field and the DOF at f/16 is needed. That said with a 60mm macro lens I'd still use f/11 to f/16 because DOF is so shallow close up that the slightest curve in the negative can throw an area out of focus at wider apertures. Now consider how little DOF you'd get with a 135mm or a 90mm. All in all I think you'd spend a lot of money on an Elpro and you'd get a close up image, but it wouldn't be the sort you need. As with any form of scanning you want to avoid at all costs the possibility you have to do it all over again.

The alternative is of course using an enlarger lens and bellows, a very sensible idea. But if you have a secondary system a macro lens gets you an extra lens for that, so win-win.

 

Im late to the party, steve i have been using the 105mm micro nikkor 2.8D, however the focusing is a bit loose that it cant hold gravity when scanning the negative, on the other hand i got the chance getting the 65mm or probably the manual 55mm nikkor micro.. 

from your opinion, do you think it’s better off to stick with 105mm or a 65mm will profuce equally great details and sharpness? better flat field for instance

or you might want to share plus/minus points between the 105mm and 65/55mm ? 

[250swb]

4 hours ago, jakontil said:

Im late to the party, steve i have been using the 105mm micro nikkor 2.8D, however the focusing is a bit loose that it cant hold gravity when scanning the negative, on the other hand i got the chance getting the 65mm or probably the manual 55mm nikkor micro.. 

from your opinion, do you think it’s better off to stick with 105mm or a 65mm will profuce equally great details and sharpness? better flat field for instance

or you might want to share plus/minus points between the 105mm and 65/55mm ? 

I think 65mm or 105 mm are the sweet spot simply because you don't want the camera too close or too far away while giving you 1:1 magnification (the 55mm gives only 1:2 magnification). And it's also practicality, you want to be sitting down when scanning and if the scanning camera has a flip up screen I guess either would be ok, if it doesn't maybe the 65mm is going to be most comfortable? Remember it's not actual macro photography you are doing, only close-up photography, so any reviews of macro lenses should be read with that in mind. I've added a link to Nikon USA and also one to Ken Rockwell (yes him) because he at least gives a good list of Nikon macro/micro lenses

https://www.nikonusa.com/en/learn-and-explore/a/products-and-innovation/macro-lenses.html

https://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/best-macro-lenses.htm

 

 

Edited August 8, 2023 by 250swb

[jakontil]

15 minutes ago, 250swb said:

I think 65mm or 105 mm are the sweet spot simply because you don't want the camera too close or too far away while giving you 1:1 magnification (the 55mm gives only 1:2 magnification). And it's also practicality, you want to be sitting down when scanning and if the scanning camera has a flip up screen I guess either would be ok, if it doesn't maybe the 65mm is going to be most comfortable? Remember it's not actual macro photography you are doing, only close-up photography, so any reviews of macro lenses should be read with that in mind. I've added a link to Nikon USA and also one to Ken Rockwell (yes him) because he at least gives a good list of Nikon macro/micro lenses

https://www.nikonusa.com/en/learn-and-explore/a/products-and-innovation/macro-lenses.html

https://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/best-macro-lenses.htm

 

 

Thanks a bunch! My set up currently isnt too ideal with either, but 65mm is giving more comfort since it is closer to the negative.. im just wondering if either 65 or 105 will give advantage im details etc, thanks steve will go through the links! 
glad i finally found the real macro lens for scanning my negs, this alone give more flexibility already 

[wlaidlaw]

I think specialist or enlarger lenses have given me better scanning results than regular camera lenses. On the BEOON I use a 50mm Schneider-Kreuznach Compon S (the later green band version but for superior results the Rodenstock 50mm APO Rodagon would be even better ) and on my Novoflex slide scanning device, a Noflexar 60mm Leica R mount macro/reprographics lens on a Leica/Novoflex BR2/16880 Bellows. I understand that a very level focus plane is a design essential of both enlargement and reprographics lenses.

Wilson

[Doug A]

The 55/2.8 Micro Nikkor will focus to 1:1 with the PK-13 extension tube. In fact, the second set of distance and magnification ratios on the lens barrel is specifically for use with the PK-13. 

 

Edited August 8, 2023 by Doug A

[Aryel]

Hi everyone, thanks a lot for the very insightful thread. I won’t have access to a darkroom for quite some time so I have decided to switch from a flatbed to camera scanning.

Would you have any suggestions in regard to which camera to get? It’ll most likely be used for scanning only but ideally I’d like to be able to ‘play’ with my m lenses. I am also hoping to stay relatively cheap. 

Thanks a lot!

[wlaidlaw]

A secondhand Panasonic L mount would be a suggestion, as there would then be the options for various L to M and L to R adapters to use Leica lenses. That is the route I would go if I did not already have an SL601, where film scanning is about the only thing it gets used for nowadays. 

Wilson

[spydrxx]

1 hour ago, Aryel said:

Would you have any suggestions in regard to which camera to get? It’ll most likely be used for scanning only but ideally I’d like to be able to ‘play’ with my m lenses. I am also hoping to stay relatively cheap. 
 

I have used an Olympus E-Pl2 with a (Olympus) Zuiko 50/3.5 macro lens for several years very successfully and had several prints blown up to 3x4 ft for display. These days scanning is all I use that camera for, although I've used it with Leica LTM & M mount lenses in the past. I probably could get slightly better results using my Sony A7Rii for scanning, but I think it would just be splitting hairs.

[BernardC]

2 hours ago, Aryel said:

Hi everyone, thanks a lot for the very insightful thread. I won’t have access to a darkroom for quite some time so I have decided to switch from a flatbed to camera scanning.

Would you have any suggestions in regard to which camera to get? It’ll most likely be used for scanning only but ideally I’d like to be able to ‘play’ with my m lenses. I am also hoping to stay relatively cheap.

Any modern digital camera with 24 megapixels or more should do. The hard part is attaching everything together.

You need a lens that can do 1:1 for 35mm negs on full frame, or 1:2 for an APS-C/MFT camera. You also need a light source, which should be white (for colour negs and slides), and even. It could be a white wall with even lighting, although your exposures will be shorter with a light box or something similar.

The main thing is to align your camera, lens, and negative. You can rig something up with a tripod, but I use an old (film-era) bellows that has a slide-copy attachment. Before that I used a negative carrier from an enlarger, on a lightbox. That setup was harder to align, but it worked just as well. I still use that method for large format negatives.

[spydrxx]

I should add that I use an electronic view finder VF-2, same as the one Leica rebranded for its use, as my eyesight is somewhat impaired. I also use it the camera clamped unto an unused enlarger and made a small lightbox for my negatives. Any of the recent m4/3 camera could do a fine job though with the right lens. I got mine 2nd hand with the VF really cheap from a popular online retailer, as it wasn't the latest model.

[charlesphoto99]

I compared my D850 vs M10 Monochrome for scanning b&w negs with the same lens, and other than the M10 being a pain in the ass to use vs the Nikon, I really couldn't spot any difference worth the hassle. 

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[Aryel]

Thanks a lot for all the inputs. I have pre-ordered an easy35. Should arrive end of September (I shoot 99% 35mm).

I will go and check what they have in second hand shops. Quite interested to check out the Panasonic. My last digital camera was a d810 sold quite a few years ago…