mp Leica MP 2019 batch 52XXXX scratching film.

[Yaakov]

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15 minutes ago, Matlock said:

I have just tried the same test (with a M2 and a M-A) and in both cases not the slightest mark. Interesting.

Exactly!, I did the same test before with the plate of my M2, so in total I tested 3 plates M2, M4-2 came out clean and the feeling while rubbing was also different from the one in the MP,

with the MP I could feel something was happening under my finger, I wish someone at Leica could have a look into this since this can be happening in many cameras, after all the plate looks completely clean to the eye and is also smooth.

I personally don't really blame the QC guy on this one since I don't know how can someone test this while putting the camera together, I don't expect Leica to load and check the film on each camera, they also don't claim to do such a test before selling them, I don't thing nobody ever has done it.

[a.noctilux]

Yaakov, I watched your video.

Why not contact Leica Customer Care (Service) to show your video ?

https://fr.leica-camera.com/Contact?country=18004&category=1 (choo se your country)

 

If they have "defective batch" of pressure plate with last delivered MP/M-A, you may help them and Leica customers a lot.

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[gabrielaszalos]

I have a Leica MP 52XXXXX manufactured in January 2020 and it’s not scratching anything (yet). Had 20 rolls put through it and developed & scanned myself at home. 

I am very sorry for your experience. I know how you feel. When I first ordered my MP, it was also not perfect and I had to send it back. A really terrible experience after hearing words like “mechanical perfection” and judging the price. My second MP (ordered from Wetzlar) seems perfect so far. You have to send the video to Leica. They will reply but it will take a while...

Edited April 30, 2020 by gabrielaszalos

[giannis]

I would say, don't sweat it too much about the pressure plate surface or finishing. Even if it were rough, the pressure plate shouldn't be applying that much pressure to the film to scratch it anyway. After all there have been cameras with non-smooth and bumpy pressure plates by design. So something is wrong in the camera, be it the mechanical tolerances or the pressure plate or both. In any case it's not excusable in a new camera, and since it's less than 2 years old I'm pretty sure it's covered by warranty in most parts of the world.

Edited April 30, 2020 by giannis
typos

[yasha]

Update 01/05

The dealer is now contacting Leica in order to find a solution, I did another experiment in order to confirm the source of the problem, I made a piece of paper big enough to cover the pressure plate, I placed it right over and shot a couple of rolls, they came up clean of all marks, I used the same type of film that I tried previously, HP5, TriX and Pancro 400.

I hope if anyone encounters this issue, they can use this method for troubleshot the source or to be able to use the camera until you get a solution.

PS: Will be better to use black paper

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Edited May 1, 2020 by yasha

[yasha]

14 hours ago, giannis said:

I would say, don't sweat it too much about the pressure plate surface or finishing. Even if it were rough, the pressure plate shouldn't be applying that much pressure to the film to scratch it anyway. After all there have been cameras with non-smooth and bumpy pressure plates by design. So something is wrong in the camera, be it the mechanical tolerances or the pressure plate or both. In any case it's not excusable in a new camera, and since it's less than 2 years old I'm pretty sure it's covered by warranty in most parts of the world.

The cause is the pressure plate, I made a video showing the issue, after covering the film comes out completely clean.

[yasha]

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On 4/27/2020 at 7:28 PM, Matlock said:

I have just tried the same test (with a M2 and a M-A) and in both cases not the slightest mark. Interesting.

Thank you for trying it out, this is why posted this here!

[Yaakov]

On 4/27/2020 at 8:12 PM, a.noctilux said:

Yaakov, I watched your video.

Why not contact Leica Customer Care (Service) to show your video ?

https://fr.leica-camera.com/Contact?country=18004&category=1 (choo se your country)

 

If they have "defective batch" of pressure plate with last delivered MP/M-A, you may help them and Leica customers a lot.

The dealer is already trying to get in touch with them, if I don’t receive any answers I’ll try to reach too.

[MarcoIT]

On 4/27/2020 at 12:35 PM, Yaakov said:

Disclaimer:

I'm starting a new topic regarding the issues found in my newly purchased Leica MP, the purpose of this is to share any ideas that could lead to a solution,

this is not a rant about Leica lack of QC which we all know is becoming an issue.

After receiving my camera I run a roll of Kodak TriX 400, after developing the film I found a trace of scratches, I did several test with other films which I didn't develop (in case the scratches were being caused by my development process):

Bergger Pancro 400,

Ilford HP5+.

They all show the same type of scratches.

This is an undeveloped roll, https://ibb.co/RbxynrM

https://ibb.co/8xkfs17

I found several threads with people claim the source of this issues was the pressure plate so I checked mine in order the find anything that could be the reason, the screws in the plate don't match the position of the marks in the film and the surface of the plate in my camera feels smooth and flat, I wondered if maybe the reason could be the bridge that has the connection for the light meter but after more inspection it was obvious that the plate keeps the very flat and it does not touch that area.

I did another test in which I rub some film on the surface of the plate, to my surprise the film was very scratched, I did the same against the plate in my 1958 M2 and it didn't do a single one.

I also did a couple of prints to verify the scratches appear and unfortunately the scratches are visible even on a middle size print.

This is the print, the scratches appear in the top and the bottom https://ibb.co/VpKsdfb

i had the same problems with my M-A 2019 changed 2 bodies

[MarcoIT]

On 4/27/2020 at 5:27 PM, Yaakov said:

I'm uploading a video to YouTube, is not the best quality and its a bit hard to see but I filmed myself just basically rubbing a piece of film against the plate of both an M4-2 and my MP, I don't apply any pressure and its visible from the light reflection that the film is heavily scratched in person looks much worse like if some very "soft" sandpaper was applied, will post the link to the video here once it finishes uploading.

The best way to test this theory would be of course changing the plate but I don't want to do anything to the camera before I get any news from the dealer, using a back door from maybe a M6 of M7 should also do the trick.

I confirm that the film press plate scratches the negative. I changed 2 new bodies of M-A to the leica store in florence with the same defect

[Yaakov]

7 hours ago, MarcoIT said:

I confirm that the film press plate scratches the negative. I changed 2 new bodies of M-A to the leica store in florence with the same defect

That's really bad news, I was not as lucky as you to get a new one, but I'm getting a new replace plate in the mail (it will take some time to arrive), I hope the technician or person in charge of that at least did some checking like the one I did in the video to ensure this new plate is not scratching.

I want to tank you for posing your experience here there are some people that had come out to criticize the fact that I'm talking about this issue here, I understand people keep Leica in very high standards I do it myself otherwise I wouldn't put 5k on one of their cameras but obviously some bad materials or finishing process has made it into their pipeline.

[a.noctilux]

"Getting a new replace plate in the mail"

I would not think this thing ( customer self repairing while new ) is possible with Leica !

Do they require you to send the faulty pressure plate ?

 

[Yaakov]

1 hour ago, a.noctilux said:

"Getting a new replace plate in the mail"

I would not think this thing ( customer self repairing while new ) is possible with Leica !

Do they require you to send the faulty pressure plate ?

 

No, of course not, I want to believe that if we weren’t in the current global situation they would offer another option, I understand I can send my camera for repair but the cost to ship it to and from Switzerland needs to be handled by me, Leica pays from shipping from the place I purchased the camera not where I actually live which is understandable.

I’m also not sure if they are shipping the plate or a complete back door, that can also be the case, in which is actually nice of them to trust my diagnostic of the problem, let’s wait and see, by the mean time I won’t be using the camera if the replacement does not work I will definitely try getting a replacement.

[a.noctilux]

Yes, we are living a not normal situation.

If Leica send you a complete back door, I approve as it's so easy to swap the door.

 

I've read somewhere in this forum that the user can buy a M-A's back door, it arrived without the leatherette.

 

I hope that if it's the MP's  back door, really it will come complete with the right leatherette.

[Guest]

If they could polish each T for 45 minutes - you remember the video? - they should also do it easily with every film press plate.
As they might use less time, there should be enough for a better end controlling.

Zitat

 

 

Edited May 13, 2020 by mnutzer

[TomB_tx]

In the 1960s it wasn't unusual to get fine scratches on the back of film from a new camera. We always fixed it ourselves, with a small, extremely fine hard Arkansas honing stone of the type used to hone a mirror finish on surgical knives. A new stone is perfectly flat and feels completely smooth. Film scratches on a new camera were nearly always caused by a slight raised finish on the pressure plate, usually nothing you could see or feel. A gentle wipe or two over the plate with the honing stone would remove any raised bits without appearing to do anything or even remove any black finish from the plate. But after that, and wiping the plate with a clean cloth to remove anything loose, you would no longer have film scratches...

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[Yaakov]

5 hours ago, TomB_tx said:

In the 1960s it wasn't unusual to get fine scratches on the back of film from a new camera. We always fixed it ourselves, with a small, extremely fine hard Arkansas honing stone of the type used to hone a mirror finish on surgical knives. A new stone is perfectly flat and feels completely smooth. Film scratches on a new camera were nearly always caused by a slight raised finish on the pressure plate, usually nothing you could see or feel. A gentle wipe or two over the plate with the honing stone would remove any raised bits without appearing to do anything or even remove any black finish from the plate. But after that, and wiping the plate with a clean cloth to remove anything loose, you would no longer have film scratches...

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Once the replacement arrives, I’ll probably give it a try, for now I’m afraid I will cause more damage and lose the guarantee 

[Yaakov]

On 5/13/2020 at 9:36 AM, Yaakov said:

Once the replacement arrives, I’ll probably give it a try, for now I’m afraid I will cause more damage and lose the guarantee 

Judging by my current situation I'll have to give this a try, the shop I purchased the camera from shipped a replacement backdoor to me, the part has been almost a month under the custody of the customs office, its very hard when a purchase of this kind becomes a problem, I think I learned my leasson of never again buying anything this expensive from a shop in a different country, I would love if I could just return it and get my money back with all this trouble I really started to regret this purchase.

[Yaakov]

UPDATE:
I finally received the replacement backdoor, the thing got stuck in customs for a month and I had to paid customs on it.

The new plate doesn’t scratch the film so we were right the source was the plate, unfortunately the backdoor doesn’t really fit the camera properly and to my surprise the light meter does not work anymore, I was very happy when I found out they were sending a complete backdoor and not only the plate, now I know why.

3 months in and I’m still troubleshooting my super simple and robust 5k camera.

 

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Hallo,

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[Yaakov]

It’s not easy to see but there is a big difference between the finishing of the pressure plate, the one on the right is the replacement from Leica, the shape of the plate it’s different but this is not the cause of the door not fitting the camera.

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