Brand new MP/M-A/M6 film scratches [Merged]

[maibaum]

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Dear Leica M Film photographers,

Quite a desperate advise from you guys. I have bought a Leica MP and I am facing scratches issues.

• First MP: first brand new MP bought at Leica store, i shoot a B&W film and developed myself. I scanned the film and it appears to be scratched on the entire film. Disappointed, I brought back the Leica MP to the store, they put a film in, shoot and rewind. Take the film out and confirmed it is scratched. They give me immediately a brand new Leica.
• Second Leica MP: second brand new MP, i shoot a B&W film and developed myself. I scanned the film and it appears to be scratched on the first half of the film. I brought back the Leica MP to the store, they put a film in, shoot and rewind. Take the film out and confirmed it is scratched but only on the part of the film. They give me immediately a brand new Leica.
• Third Leica MP: third brand new MP, i shoot a B&W film and developed myself. I scanned the film and it appears to be scratched on the last 4 pictures of the film (33, 34, 35, 36). I renew the operation with another film and same outcome.

in a sense there is a positive progression! but honestly i will stop there and will not go for a fourth one (shoot, develop, test...). I have the feeling the pressure plate is the issue when pressure at the end of the film is too high. Any advise before I go for the 4th time to the store?

Note: I am developing the film myself with other films from other cameras which are not scratched, so the development process is not the issue.

Thanks,

Michel

[28framelines]

Jeez. I feel like I dodged a bullet. 2020 MPs were doing this, and then my 2021 MP does not have this issue. But if this is showing up again… something has gone wrong. It’s definitely the pressure plate. I read one person took very fine sandpaper to their pressure plate when this happened and it solved the problem, but please do not try this. Maybe try to snag a new M6, because that’s where all the focus probably is now.

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[pedaes]

1 hour ago, maibaum said:

second brand new MP

Bad luck, but lucky to have a store with that many MP's in stock.

If you get another, I would test with a old film before using it.

Edited November 13, 2022 by pedaes

[logan2z]

I'm not sure what's more surprising, that three random MPs that you tried had the same defect or that your dealer has 3+ MPs in stock.

Did you or the dealer have a close look at the pressure plates in the first couple of MPs to see if you could figure out what might be scratching the film?  If so and you can see a defect on the pressure plate, then I'd probably have a look at another that the dealer has in stock (assuming that he has another) and if it's defect free then give it a try.  At least have the dealer put the film through the camera in the store before you bother to take it home and shoot/develop a roll of film.  It seems strange that they wouldn't have done that after you bought the second defective camera.

And check the serial number of the next camera to make sure it's not the same as one of the other three that you were sold  It seems incredible that three cameras in a row would have the same defect in the pressure plate, unless there was a run of bad plates in the batch received by the dealer.

Good luck.

[logan2z]

15 minutes ago, 28framelines said:

Maybe try to snag a new M6, because that’s where all the focus probably is now.

I'm willing to bet that the new M6 and the MP/M-A are all using the same pressure plate.  I guess it's possible that the pressure plate design was modified for the new M6 and isn't yet showing up in the in-stock batches of MPs/M-As at dealers, but I'm sure all new production will share the same part.

[Yaakov]

I had the same issue with mine in 2019, I was not as lucky as you the get a replacement one because I did not bought the camera directly from Leica second it was in the middle of the pandemic and the world was crazy, at the end I received a replacement for the back door, the way to test you have a a good is to just wrap a piece of film over the pressure plate, you will see with the bad one the intermediately scratch it, I posted the hole thing here:

 

[BradS]

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Unfortunately this is not the first instance.

That Leica cannot get this very fundamental thing right...after what? 100 years of making film cameras?

Mind boggling!

Frankly, I think they ought to stop shipment of all MP and M-A cameras and fix this shit.  It is totally unacceptable.

[maibaum]

Hi guys, thanks a lot for your quick feedback. I will bring back the camera, and ask for a pre-tested one. Honestly, I am tired to run the tests. I could not imagine such things happen when you buy an MP. Keep you posted.

[earleygallery]

If the camera is at fault you don't need to process the film, just run a film through the camera and then look at it for signs of scratches.

Annoying to waste a film but maybe you can find an outdated roll at least.

 

[comte de Mazan]

my MP was made in 2002, at a time when Leica was not yet producing digital cameras and when mechanical workers specialized in film cameras were still working.  This explains it I think...

[250swb]

After all this time of reporting about pressure plates that scratch the film has anybody actually photographed the cause of the problem? It would be interesting to see the post.

[Huss]

I don't get it.  Even the cheapest, crappiest camera I have does no scratch film. Even the disposable ones!

This is not rocket science.  This is a complete failure in the manufacturing process and QA checks.

[Matlock]

16 hours ago, Huss said:

I don't get it.  Even the cheapest, crappiest camera I have does no scratch film. Even the disposable ones!

This is not rocket science.  This is a complete failure in the manufacturing process and QA checks.

Is it? As Steve has said we have had numerous posts about this but no photographic evidence. Also the OPs explanation re full film scratched, then first half scratched and lastly the end of the film scratched just does not make sense. We need much more information before coming to any conclusions. It is quite telling that a number these, so called, problems have never been followed up and the posters often just disappear off the forum.

[Huss]

5 hours ago, Matlock said:

Is it? As Steve has said we have had numerous posts about this but no photographic evidence. Also the OPs explanation re full film scratched, then first half scratched and lastly the end of the film scratched just does not make sense. We need much more information before coming to any conclusions. It is quite telling that a number these, so called, problems have never been followed up and the posters often just disappear off the forum.

HMM, if that is the case I am w you.  It is ‘interesting’ that the one poster claimed his Leica shop had 4 MPs just sitting there so he could get them swapped out until he found a good one.  Whereas everywhere else that camera is hard to come by.

I’ll let you know if my new M6 scratches film!

[Huss]

p.s and I've had 2 M3s, 1 m4-2, 1 MdA, 1 1F, 1 M5, 2 M7s, 1 MP, 1 M-A.  None scratched film.

[250swb]

My BS meter is off the scale with this thread.

[Huss]

1 hour ago, 250swb said:

My BS meter is off the scale with this thread.

When was the last time you had it calibrated?

[earleygallery]

There's been enough 'new MP scratched film' threads to suggest that there may be an issue with some cameras, but yes, scratching during processing etc is another factor.

If you run a fresh film through the camera (just winding on and firing the shutter, not taking photos) and unload without processing you should see the scratches IF it is the camera.

I would also think it'd be fairly obvious if you run your fingertip over the pressure plate if there was a sharp point somewhere. Perhaps there was a faulty batch? Who knows!

[250swb]

59 minutes ago, Huss said:

When was the last time you had it calibrated?

When I read the OP's first post.

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[Stevejack]

I just noticed yesterday that my film backing plate is loose on my 2022 MP. It jiggles around quite a bit.
I have also noticed scratched negatives but I just assumed my scanner was doing this. I'm going to take a closer look now and see what might be really going on.