Leica gear for film scanning?

[Crem]

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Is anyone here scanning their own film using all Leica gear? What are you using? I'm considering the following setup:

• M10-R for camera scanning
• Macro lens, extension tube, or the Elpro 52 to get a close as possible to a 1:1 reproduction ratio as I can
• Negative Film Supply film carrier for 35mm film
• Negative Lab Pro for processing with Lightroom
• Light table, copy stand, etc accessories (haven't picked them out yet)

Curious if anyone has any advice. Any recommendations on macro lenses? I already own the M10-R and Elpro 52 so I'll try them out just for fun. I'm guessing a macro lens is preferred, but I don't know what the good film scanning options are for M mount.

Thank you for any advice!

[AndreasG]

For 1:1 scale images with a digital Leica M10-D I use the old Makro Elmarit-R 2.8/60 (11205) with the adapter 14198 and another LR-LM adapter. It is a bulky combination, but you need anyway a tripod or so. Focussing need some experience - Visoflex 020 or via the Leica App/Tablet.

Edited August 13, 2021 by AndreasG

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[Guest Nowhereman]

If you do a search you can find several LUF threads with lots of information on scanning with Leica digital cameras, including the M10 and the BEOON copying stand.
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[caloosajo]

On 8/13/2021 at 10:40 AM, Crem said:

Is anyone here scanning their own film using all Leica gear? What are you using? I'm considering the following setup:

• M10-R for camera scanning
• Macro lens, extension tube, or the Elpro 52 to get a close as possible to a 1:1 reproduction ratio as I can
• Negative Film Supply film carrier for 35mm film
• Negative Lab Pro for processing with Lightroom
• Light table, copy stand, etc accessories (haven't picked them out yet)

Curious if anyone has any advice. Any recommendations on macro lenses? I already own the M10-R and Elpro 52 so I'll try them out just for fun. I'm guessing a macro lens is preferred, but I don't know what the good film scanning options are for M mount.

Thank you for any advice!

I’ve been considering almost this exact setup for a few months now. 135 APO Telyt gets 1:1 with Elpro 52. But Elpro 52 manual recommends using f16, which may be problematic on the 40mp sensor. The 90 Summarit f2.4 gets really close to 1:1 as well. 

[250swb]

Or buy a cheap Nikon F to Leica M adapter (or adapter for any other secondary system you use) and use a dedicated manual micro/macro lens, either a Nikkor 60mm Ais or 55mm Ai, etc. 

Scanning negatives isn't just about close up photography, it is about close up flat field photography where you have no distortion, you are copying the flat negative to the flat sensor. I doubt a 135mm Telyt or 90mm Summarit plus Elpro would deliver that flat field, not to mention the height you will have your copy stand at to achieve focus. Somebody can put me right but I suspect the reason the Elpro manual recommends f/16 is because of inherent distortion across the field and the DOF at f/16 is needed. That said with a 60mm macro lens I'd still use f/11 to f/16 because DOF is so shallow close up that the slightest curve in the negative can throw an area out of focus at wider apertures. Now consider how little DOF you'd get with a 135mm or a 90mm. All in all I think you'd spend a lot of money on an Elpro and you'd get a close up image, but it wouldn't be the sort you need. As with any form of scanning you want to avoid at all costs the possibility you have to do it all over again.

The alternative is of course using an enlarger lens and bellows, a very sensible idea. But if you have a secondary system a macro lens gets you an extra lens for that, so win-win.

 

[LocalHero1953]

For 4x5 film I use a SL2-S with the 24-90 zoom, mounted on a tripod and ballhead, with the negative placed on a Kaiser Slimlight LED light panel. I set the SL2-S in multishot mode. This gives me far more resolution than I need.

I am about to set up for 35mm scanning, and will use the same equipment but with the Apo-Macro-Elmarit-R 100mm and ELPRO, which should give 1:1 reproduction. I have not actually used this in anger yet.

[pgk]

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By far the most important aspect of slide copying is ensuring that the plane of the slide and digital sensor are parallel.You can build a small copystand out of area compatible tripod QR sections which will be stable and accurate. This is what I use. The camera and lens are largely irrelevant because you will be using f/11-16 to ensure that the slide (which will not be perfectly flat) is adequately covered by depth of filed and any decent macro lens will perform very well at such apertures.

[a.noctilux]

I use M + Beoon + Focotar 50mm or 60mm Macro-R

other possibilities to try out which one is suitable, fast, easy, etc.

 

I provide links to rich discussions on the possibilities :

 

 

 

 

[Crem]

Thank you everyone for the feedback.

Quick update for this thread:  I really wanted to get a BEOON, but couldn't justify the used prices. I wish I would have invested in those a few years ago! I ended up going with a different camera brand so I could use a Sigma 70mm macro with the Essential Film Holder, Kaiser light table, and a Negative Supply copy stand. I am completely blown away by the results. I'm using the latest Negative Lab Pro v2.3 beta for Lightroom conversion. I suspect a SL2 or SL2-S with the Sigma 70mm macro would give the same or even better results, but I couldn't justify the price of those bodies for a dedicated scanner. So long story short, I ended up going with a non-Leica setup for scanning, but it's a joy to use and relatively cost effective. I'm now shooting my MP daily and I can't seem to put it down. Long live film!

Relate to this: I did talk to the creator of Negative Lab Pro and he kindly added the M10-R profile to the latest v2.3 beta. So it's definitely possible to scan with it. I tested out scanning with the Summilux 50mm ASPH and the Elpro52. It worked well, but I get better results with a dedicated macro lens.

Edited October 11, 2021 by Crem

[250swb]

You went the simplest and most sensible route. That aside if upgrading your 'scanner' in the future will only ever cost the price of a new body, and if it's not a Leica body you'll not be spending $8000 each time.

Edited October 11, 2021 by 250swb

[Crem]

25 minutes ago, 250swb said:

You went the simplest and most sensible route.

I would say I ended up at the simplest route after taking a few detours to bad neighborhoods.

My first disappointment was the Negative Supply Basic Film Carrier. The company and their support are fantastic, but I much prefer the Essential Film Holder. It's possible Negative Supply's more expensive products are better.

Also I greatly underestimated the importance of a dedicated scanning camera with a physical wire for tethering. Tethering *really* speeds up the process. With the M10-R I either had to sync files wirelessly to my phone (and then ship them to my computer) or take the camera off the stand to get to the SD card. A lot of time goes into mounting the camera and aligning the lens.

All lessons I learned fairly quickly, but easy to overlook in the DIY scanning world.

 

Edited October 11, 2021 by Crem

[Steve Ricoh]

This may be of interest to some, scanning B&W film using the Leica M246:

https://www.streetsilhouettes.com/home/2019/10/3/digitizing-black-and-white-film-with-the-leica-m246
 

[250swb]

9 hours ago, Steve Ricoh said:

This may be of interest to some, scanning B&W film using the Leica M246:

https://www.streetsilhouettes.com/home/2019/10/3/digitizing-black-and-white-film-with-the-leica-m246
 

Thanks for posting the link. A lot of very questionable conclusions and I get the impression he's confusing what he considers 'the best' digitising solution only with what works best for him.

[LocalHero1953]

On 10/10/2021 at 9:04 AM, LocalHero1953 said:

For 4x5 film I use a SL2-S with the 24-90 zoom, mounted on a tripod and ballhead, with the negative placed on a Kaiser Slimlight LED light panel. I set the SL2-S in multishot mode. This gives me far more resolution than I need.

I am about to set up for 35mm scanning, and will use the same equipment but with the Apo-Macro-Elmarit-R 100mm and ELPRO, which should give 1:1 reproduction. I have not actually used this in anger yet.

I have found my second set-up, with the Apo-Macro-Elmarit-R 100 and ELPRO to be practical and effective. I use a Gitzo 0545 tripod in the inverted position to hold the camera, and a Kaiser film strip holder placed on the light table.

[Steve Ricoh]

3 hours ago, 250swb said:

Thanks for posting the link. A lot of very questionable conclusions and I get the impression he's confusing what he considers 'the best' digitising solution only with what works best for him.

If I had an M246 or an M10 Monochrome, I’d use it for picture taking. Certainly wouldn’t purchase just to ‘improve’ my B&W ‘scans’. I doubt many would.

[jakontil]

On 10/10/2021 at 2:48 PM, 250swb said:

Or buy a cheap Nikon F to Leica M adapter (or adapter for any other secondary system you use) and use a dedicated manual micro/macro lens, either a Nikkor 60mm Ais or 55mm Ai, etc. 

Scanning negatives isn't just about close up photography, it is about close up flat field photography where you have no distortion, you are copying the flat negative to the flat sensor. I doubt a 135mm Telyt or 90mm Summarit plus Elpro would deliver that flat field, not to mention the height you will have your copy stand at to achieve focus. Somebody can put me right but I suspect the reason the Elpro manual recommends f/16 is because of inherent distortion across the field and the DOF at f/16 is needed. That said with a 60mm macro lens I'd still use f/11 to f/16 because DOF is so shallow close up that the slightest curve in the negative can throw an area out of focus at wider apertures. Now consider how little DOF you'd get with a 135mm or a 90mm. All in all I think you'd spend a lot of money on an Elpro and you'd get a close up image, but it wouldn't be the sort you need. As with any form of scanning you want to avoid at all costs the possibility you have to do it all over again.

The alternative is of course using an enlarger lens and bellows, a very sensible idea. But if you have a secondary system a macro lens gets you an extra lens for that, so win-win.

 

hi steve,

 

I have been scanning with M10r + macro adapter and 50 apo summicron, i came across this and realised i have a source for 105 mm micro nikkor.. do you reckon i could use it? And what’s the proper lens adaptor to my M? 

[jakontil]

. Doube post, deleted

Edited July 3 by jakontil

[250swb]

5 hours ago, jakontil said:

hi steve,

 

I have been scanning with M10r + macro adapter and 50 apo summicron, i came across this and realised i have a source for 105 mm micro nikkor.. do you reckon i could use it? And what’s the proper lens adaptor to my M? 

You just need a Nikon to Leica M adapter (Nikon-L/M), it doesn't need to be too expensive as it only acts as a spacer. Its important to get the words the right way around so a 'L/M - Nikon' adapter would be wrong, but they are sold even though they wouldn't allow focus to infinity. This is an example of a correct adapter

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/313167653227?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=ktm6okues3k&sssrc=2047675&ssuid=fGJNE44AQGu&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

I use a 60mm Micro Nikkor but a 105mm would also be ideal.

Edited July 3 by 250swb

[jakontil]

44 minutes ago, 250swb said:

You just need a Nikon to Leica M adapter (Nikon-L/M), it doesn't need to be too expensive as it only acts as a spacer. Its important to get the words the right way around so a 'L/M - Nikon' adapter would be wrong, but they are sold even though they wouldn't allow focus to infinity. This is an example of a correct adapter

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/313167653227?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=ktm6okues3k&sssrc=2047675&ssuid=fGJNE44AQGu&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

I use a 60mm Micro Nikkor but a 105mm would also be ideal.

Thanks mate! Yeah one is available locally, and too the cheaper one but i think KnF is the least to go for..

will carefully look for Nikon-L/M 

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[Doug A]

For scanning 35mm negatives I am now using a BEOON copy stand with a Fujifilm X-T20, a Schneider 50/2.8 enlarging lens and a Logan light table. It all fits in a 12" cube dairy crate and sets up in seconds, not minutes, with everything perfectly parallel and ready to scan. My results are better than I had from an Epson V600 or a Plustek 7100. Unfortunately, as mentioned above the BEOON is expensive and not particularly easy to find. 

But I think a much better and more affordable solution for scanning 35mm negatives may be on the horizon. The VALOI easy35 is an all-in-one solution that replaces the copy stand, the negative holder and the light source. Add just a digital camera with live view and a macro lens that focuses to 1:1 and it's good to go. I supported the Indiegogo campaign because I think it has the potential to make digital camera scanning much more accessible, which is a good thing for hybrid photography in general. Note that the easy35 is only for 35mm (or smaller) film. Support for 35mm slides or smaller formats is planned but not included in the initial offering. 

As an early supporter I am supposed to receive an easy35 in the next month or two. I'll use it with the X-T20 and a 55/2.8 Nikkor Micro ais lens. I plan to try it for a while and then give my son whichever of the two setups, BEOON or easy35, I decide not to use going forward.