Panasonic S1R body weight

[hoppyman]

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I think that there is an understandable perspective here that the Panasonic’s are meant to compete in the market with the SL. That is relevant for people who own or would like to own Leica cameras. I speculate that Panasonic is much more interested in competing with Canon and Nikon while the long standing Leica connection assists in their brand image.

As an SL and S user, I would be unlikely to buy the Panasonic bodies for their newer features but it’s interesting that styling and size wise they’re every bit as angular and large as the SL. Personally that is the one aspect of the SL that I hope changes with the SL2

[bags27]

8 hours ago, nicci78 said:

You are mistaken, it is worst : S1/S1R are more than 1 kg ! crazy. SL seems as light as the CL now. 

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I could be mistaken here, but I think the original comparison is correct. The weights in this picture includes the card and, more importantly, a pretty big battery. Peter, at Leica Rumors, lists them as 52 grams apart when both are "naked."

Edited February 1, 2019 by bags27

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[vikasmg]

On 2/1/2019 at 3:29 AM, ron777 said:

Hello,

I've just taken note of the recently released specs for the Panasonic S1R.  It appears that it is slightly heavier than the SL, the S1R weighing in at 898 grams, Sl at 847 grams.  I will not be replacing my SL anytime soon.

The relatively cheery thing I read on this is that new Panasonic 24-105 may be relatively light.

[nicci78]

Bags27 My screen shot is from Panasonic web site. Not from rumoured specs wrongly spread across the internet  

1020 g is also confirm by DPreview

S1 is (all things equals battery + SD) 170g heavier than SL 

[ynp]

It’s almost as heavy as my S2P. 

[verwackelt]

The people that have problems to carry 1,5-2 kg around should do a little bit more sport for their fitness 😉

I bet, if the S1R weight had been around 700g the same people that cry now about the "high" weight would blame the camera cheap made, toyish flimsy, weak battery, unsolid and not "proffessional" enough to withstand  a rough shooting day in the wilderness.
So why not buy a Sony and be happy? it for small hands and its cheaper and lighter. 
Or if you want it much lighter, buy an APS-C camera. you can shoot wonderful pics with each camera.
But do not blame Panasonic that it launched a kamera that is as what it was announced. FF, Solid as a Rock, ergonomic for hands of adult people and space for a bigger battery.
It is well balanced with the bigger solid lenses that have AF and weather sealing.
So please be realistic an not childish.
A tiny, lightweight, ergonomic, rocksolid, weathersealed camera, with long living Battery and being well balanced with bigger 1.4 Lenses and cost only about 1500$?
How should that work? 
Choose the camera you need, and do not blame the other cameras that they are made for the needs of other people...

Edited February 2, 2019 by verwackelt

[Tailwagger]

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Both my M's have RRS grips on them, which essentially brings them up into this size and weight class. Add the EVF and the gripped 240 is actually a tick or two heavier than the current SL. Given the additional stability and confidence, I've never once been tempted to shoot without them just to save a few ounces. Personally, I think its best to reserve judgement until one gets a chance to actually handle the camera.  What I'm more concerned with L-Mount systems as opposed to my current Ms is the size and weight of the optics.  At 995g, the Pano 50mm looks to equal that of my 50mm Summilux, 35mm Distagon, and 21mm SEM combined, both in terms of mass and volume.  As a shooter of primes, the optic specifications are far more of an issue to me than the body. 

Edited February 2, 2019 by Tailwagger

[caissa]

Even the optical wishes are different for different users.
After almost all companies recalculated their 50s for FF cameras and now are offering a new class of 50s regarding IQ, it would be very difficult for anybody to go back to the old style 50s of lesser resolution. (e.g. Nikon has still old style 50s)
So I think the consumer grade 50s are now mainly to be found in APS-C and m43. And I think this class of cameras is also much more popular than the FF cameras.

The Ms are above consumer grade, but obviously not completely equal to "the new 50s". But for private use (no huge prints) they are certainly more than good enough. They can only be so small because they use absolutely no electronics and save the space for the necessary electrical contacts, the motors and the circuitery.

The new SL lenses are maybe also unnecessarily big because Leica targeted for a "common size" in these lenses - this was in use already a long time in very expensive cinema lenses. Advantage, whatever the lens, the balance of the camera is identical. Very clear to see with the Summicrons of equal/identical size. The zooms are not so clearly identical, but have identical diameters and filters, at least.

Edited February 2, 2019 by caissa

[BernardC]

22 minutes ago, caissa said:

After almost all companies recalculated their 50s for FF cameras and now are offering a new class of 50s regarding IQ, it would be very difficult for anybody to go back to the old style 50s of lesser resolution. (e.g. Nikon has still old style 50s)

Leica was the first to do this, with the reformulated 50 Summilux-R lens, and then the 50 Summilux Asph. They pushed the limit even farther with the Apo-Summicron M and Summilux SL.

What happened is that the limits of the traditional double-gauss (aka Planar) design were reached in the 1970s, or maybe earlier. It took a long time to commit to more complex designs, mostly because the 50 was long considered a cheap entry-level lens.

That doesn't make the old 50mm designs obsolete. Many people (including myself) prefer them for portraits and for their classic look. Almost every brand now offers both kinds, although you have to adapt a (non-apo) Summicron-M on the SL to get this look.

Not coincidentally, many of the old-style lenses have been rediscovered by cinema shooters. They have a very different look, compared to modern lenses, and that look can work very well for some types of story-telling.

[caissa]

I have my humble Summicron-R for that. It was the first lens I got with my first Leica (R4). And for a while (the first year maybe) it was the ¨normal lens¨ again on the SL.  

[nicci78]

Whatever we can say about weight. Leica lose most of its SL sales due to large size and weight.

In every domains weight is the enemy. Lighter is better. Because lighter can be make heavier. But heavier cannot be make lighter. You can always add grips.

Everything add up. If you already start at 1 kg, you add another kilo for huge lens, a heavy ninja Atomos, an external mic, a continuous light, etc... It will be pretty fast unbearable. 

 

Funny thing is Lok’s review about the S1. Starting with weight and size is not important, if you get all options. But one hour later, he complained about the camera being too heavy ! Cannot bear it anymore 😅 in only one hour. Something that never happen to him so fast 

[Mr.Q]

Thank goodness I moved to a X1D, a lightweight medium format camera. I do not like where the L mount system is heading.

[Jon Warwick]

I tried the cameras yesterday, and the ergonomics of the S1(R) are really nice. The handgrip seems to fit my hand really well, and the texture of the grip adds to very reassuring handling.

Its handling, imho, felt more “S” than the more brutal “SL” design in this regard - my personal view is that neither the shape or texture of the SL’s grip makes it that ergonomic for me to handle well. With the Panasonic 50 1.4, I found the whole S1(R) set up to be very manageable and not fatiguing despite the weight on paper. Whether that view would change if I held it for hours and hours I don’t know.

The size of the camera suited the 50 1.4 and 24-105 lenses well, imho. I didn’t have an SL prime at hand to see how well the smaller and more narrow-barrelled  Summicron lenses would potentially look as part of the set-up.

The new viewfinder is also magnificent - big, very clear, no lag that I could tell of.

[thighslapper]

8 hours ago, Jon Warwick said:

I tried the cameras yesterday, and the ergonomics of the S1(R) are really nice. The handgrip seems to fit my hand really well, and the texture of the grip adds to very reassuring handling.

Its handling, imho, felt more “S” than the more brutal “SL” design in this regard - my personal view is that neither the shape or texture of the SL’s grip makes it that ergonomic for me to handle well. With the Panasonic 50 1.4, I found the whole S1(R) set up to be very manageable and not fatiguing despite the weight on paper. Whether that view would change if I held it for hours and hours I don’t know.

The size of the camera suited the 50 1.4 and 24-105 lenses well, imho. I didn’t have an SL prime at hand to see how well the smaller and more narrow-barrelled  Summicron lenses would potentially look as part of the set-up.

The new viewfinder is also magnificent - big, very clear, no lag that I could tell of.

Some sense from someone that has actually physically held the thing.

A small, light, poorly designed camera can be just as .... or more .... fatiguing and frustrating to use than one that is bigger, heavier, but has better ergonomics. 

My main concern .... for landscape use ..... is the combined system weight that I have to cart up mountains .... and in that case the body is only a small part of the total. It's lenses, filters,  tripod and foul weather gear that really kill .... and quality optics just don't come light in FF or MF I'm afraid....... whether it's zooms or multiple equivalent primes. 

I have a CL set up for days when I feel challenged by age and fitness ..... but the resulting images are never as good .....

Edited February 3, 2019 by thighslapper

[helged]

8 minutes ago, thighslapper said:

I have a CL set up for days when I feel challenged by age and fitness ..... but the resulting images are never as good .....

+1

[bags27]

For those working as professionals, weight is rarely a problem for a variety of reasons. For the rest of us, it's how we imagine using the camera. For better or worse, when I'm in a Leica store, I imagine traveling with the camera. That means being out all day with my wife, frequently hiking or at least walking for many hours at a time without a backpack or sling or whatever. Can I see myself taking an SL with me for that? Absolutely not. Last summer, I bumped into a guy at the Louisiana Museum outside of Copenhagen. He had an SL and the 24-90, I had my Q. I admired his kit. He told me he'd rather have mine that day. He was right. Which is why there are so many threads on the web fantasizing (it won't happen) about a Q with interchangeable lenses.

And which is why a lot of us were so disappointed in the S1R specs....

[pico]

17 minutes ago, bags27 said:

For those working as professionals, weight is rarely a problem for a variety of reasons.

Yeah, such as they don't have to use it outside of the studio, or they have an assistant to carry it.

[caissa]

22 hours ago, Mr.Q said:

Thank goodness I moved to a X1D, a lightweight medium format camera. I do not like where the L mount system is heading.

We are here talking about a few grams difference (much less than a pound in any case). After using DSLRs for many years and the SL I find it ridiculous to worry so much about that little bit of weight. I like the metal lenses Leica offers. If a manufacturer switches to more plastic, then he can of course save a lot of weight, but would I want that ? No definitely not!
The new consumer grade 24-105 is much lighter (because of the plastic). That probably makes sense for this lens, but for professional lenses ? I doubt it.

The X1D has not a single zoom, also clumsy primes with only small/subpar apertures with a lot of plastic and it is not really lightweight just as it is not really medium format. And it is generally very slow and not suitable for many tasks. If you like it, great. Would I want it ? NO.
The GFX has probably more professional lenses, but are they small or lightweight ? Not that I know of. And also only a single zoom of very limited range.

If you like your MF (actually a wrong name for only 70% more footage of 33x44, can you guess how big this difference is linearly ? Negligible.) I'm glad if it makes you happy. Real MF is in reality more than double the area of 33x44. If it makes you a better photographer, again congratulations.  But is it lightweight and do you need to come here to brag about that ?       Have you ever heard about "reality check" ?

And what does it give you to come here and tell aloud that you do not like the L-mount systems (without the opportunity to ever use the latest models ?)

Edited February 3, 2019 by caissa

[Mr.Q]

What did I hit a nerve or something? 😂Last time I checked I am allowed to voice my opinion here.

Hey if you like heavy cameras and lenses, more power (or rather, metal) to you. I hike and travel alot, and believe it or not, a difference of a few hundreds grams per lens adds up and makes a huge difference at high altitudes. I sold the SL after I saw that the 35 and 50 Summicrons were the same size (and presumably same weight) as the 75 and 90.  Carry 3 of those and we're talking easily over a pound of difference with the small Hassy lenses I have. I would have gladly stayed with the SL if a 35 or 50 Elmarit-SL were available.

As I said, bummer that the L-mount systems are going bigger and heavier like the Canon R, another system I'd never consider. Sony and Nikon have much lighter alternatives, so it's quite obvious they're targeting a different submarket. Same with the X1D and GFX fyi. The X1D is the better tool for landscape and travel photography, which happens to be what I shoot. Perhaps the GFX system is more "professional" (ironically it uses alot more plastic than HB) by your standards but honestly I could care less. 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[thighslapper]

Caissa and Mr Q ...... I think you will both find that technology will eventually elevate APS-C to a level that makes your current arguments irrelevant .....

.... although by then you will be re-running the same points with comparisons of the available FF and MF 150mpx cameras ....