Why I will keep my hands off the successor to the Panasonic S1R

[01maciel]

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Rumours are spreading about the successor to the Panasonic S1R so presumably, the Panasonic Lumix S1R Mark II will be on the shelves of photo retailers together with the Leica S3. Although I think the S1R is an extremely good camera, I won't be considering its successor since the provision of firmware is very poor. The last firmware update for the S1R was in July 2021, and there are many reasons why the firmware is in desperate need of an update.

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S1R + 35mm F1.2 DG DN | Art 019

[hepcat]

2 hours ago, 01maciel said:

Rumours are spreading about the successor to the Panasonic S1R so presumably, the Panasonic Lumix S1R Mark II will be on the shelves of photo retailers together with the Leica S3. Although I think the S1R is an extremely good camera, I won't be considering its successor since the provision of firmware is very poor. The last firmware update for the S1R was in July 2021, and there are many reasons why the firmware is in desperate need of an update.
S1R + 35mm F1.2 DG DN | Art 019

What are the reasons you think the firmware desperately needs an update?

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[01maciel]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb hepcat:

What are the reasons you think the firmware desperately needs an update?

What comes in my mind is

- AF needs to be improved/updated
- transfer of focal length information to the Exif data for manual lenses
- wider spread of EV steps (currently max 1EV) for exposure bracketing
- Live Composite of the S5 would be a nice
- Optimisation of the menu structure
- Response behaviour and sensitivity of the joystick
- Download speed of the images
- Optimisation of the menu structure

[jdlaing]

3 minutes ago, 01maciel said:

What comes in my mind is

- AF needs to be improved/updated
- transfer of focal length information to the Exif data for manual lenses
- wider spread of EV steps (currently max 1EV) for exposure bracketing
- Live Composite of the S5 would be a nice
- Optimisation of the menu structure
- Response behaviour and sensitivity of the joystick
- Download speed of the images
- Optimisation of the menu structure

AF is okay so far but I don’t shoot action.

How would you transfer FL with no electronics in the lens?

You will never ever get optimization from Panasonic or Sony. It’s a cardinal sin for them.

Thats a mechanical function. Can’t be corrected in firmware.

Download speed? Please elaborate. 

[01maciel]

vor 6 Minuten schrieb jdlaing:

How would you transfer FL with no electronics in the lens?

Manual lenses must be specified in the menu with the focal length for the Image Stabiliser to function correctly. Each time the camera is switched on, there is also a query in the OVF or on the rear display as to whether the length is still correct. Hence .the focal length of the manual lens is known to the camera and could be transfered in the Exif data.

 

vor 9 Minuten schrieb jdlaing:

You will never ever get optimization from Panasonic or Sony. It’s a cardinal sin for them.

It seems so. Panasonic or Sony is a one off decision. I wouldn't buy it once again.

 

vor 10 Minuten schrieb jdlaing:

Download speed? Please elaborate. 

It's just too slow and could be improved. I guess it's not even close to the maximum possible speed.

[jaapv]

Ifyou mean by USB that is highly dependent on the cable that you are using. 

[Babylonia]

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- AF needs to be improved/updated
  I think, there is no further improvement possible, as AF only is made by system "contrast" options.
  The more speedy AF as e.g. done within S1 Mark II  only this is possible by using new design hardware components in a new S1R camera model.

- transfer of focal length information to the Exif data for manual lenses
  That is "the only real" detail that can be updated by software, what can be achieved (by the Image Stabiliser menu) and use that data for EXIF to.

- wider spread of EV steps (currently max 1EV) for exposure bracketing
  You can make a sequence of 7 images, so 7 steps (6 EV max).   Should be more than enough for the most extreme situations.
  Give a shift afterwards to the  +-  exposure compensation, and you have an additional range of steps.

- Live Composite of the S5 would be a nice
  By the much more high 47 MP sensor, a much more high demanding of CPU power is needed.
  I highly doubt that the CPU of the S1R  could manage that. (The only reason it is not possible by this camera, but "can" by the same aged S5).

- Optimisation of the menu structure
  That is a very subjective thought.  If you ask 1000 users, you shall get 1000 different wishes.
  For optimisation you can use your personal Fn functions, just under some buttons.
  I find the menu structure far better than of other camera brands (Sony - Canon), and in general a good balance.

- Response behaviour and sensitivity of the joystick
  Shall be more related to the hardware of this button itself.
  If you want a better option e.g. for shifting the AF area in a more easy way, better to use the touch screen options of the back screen.
  Can be set with several customised options.

- Download speed of the images
   1. "In camera"  speed to SD card or CFexpress-B card.  Depends to specifications of memory card + CPU power of the camera / hardware system limitations.
   2. Download by USB cable to e.g a laptop.  As already mentioned.  A good quality USB cable is needed. (Best with good "shielded" specifications).
       And also you have to switch off the WiFi of a laptop. As  WiFi and USB by its nature / physics, do have a negative influence to each other
       by electromagnetic interference.  Not only as by WiFi 2.4 GHz  band and USB (already mentioned by  Intel PDF white papers in 2012).
       But the more high speeds in general, the more sensitive for interference (also at 5 GHz).  And precautions has to be taken.

       + the system hardware limitations as by camera system itself.    I doubt that it can be improved further by software?

So most "limitations" are related to the hardware system of the S1R camera, and can not be improved so much any-more by firmware updates.
      

[Babylonia]

  Sorry, mixing up camera model types within my previous message.
 

vor 9 Stunden schrieb Babylonia:

  The more speedy AF as e.g. done within S1 Mark II  only this is possible by using new design hardware components in a new S1R camera model.     

                       Model type   ----> should be  S5 Mark II

vor 9 Stunden schrieb Babylonia:

  I highly doubt that the CPU of the S1R  could manage that. (The only reason it is not possible by this camera, but "can" by the same aged S5).

                                                                                                                                        The other mixing up model type   ----> should be   aged S1

[01maciel]

Am 8.1.2024 um 18:30 schrieb Babylonia:

- AF needs to be improved/updated
  I think, there is no further improvement possible, as AF only is made by system "contrast" options.
  The more speedy AF as e.g. done within S1 Mark II  only this is possible by using new design hardware components in a new S1R camera model.

- transfer of focal length information to the Exif data for manual lenses
  That is "the only real" detail that can be updated by software, what can be achieved (by the Image Stabiliser menu) and use that data for EXIF to.

- wider spread of EV steps (currently max 1EV) for exposure bracketing
  You can make a sequence of 7 images, so 7 steps (6 EV max).   Should be more than enough for the most extreme situations.
  Give a shift afterwards to the  +-  exposure compensation, and you have an additional range of steps.

- Live Composite of the S5 would be a nice
  By the much more high 47 MP sensor, a much more high demanding of CPU power is needed.
  I highly doubt that the CPU of the S1R  could manage that. (The only reason it is not possible by this camera, but "can" by the same aged S5).

- Optimisation of the menu structure
  That is a very subjective thought.  If you ask 1000 users, you shall get 1000 different wishes.
  For optimisation you can use your personal Fn functions, just under some buttons.
  I find the menu structure far better than of other camera brands (Sony - Canon), and in general a good balance.

- Response behaviour and sensitivity of the joystick
  Shall be more related to the hardware of this button itself.
  If you want a better option e.g. for shifting the AF area in a more easy way, better to use the touch screen options of the back screen.
  Can be set with several customised options.

- Download speed of the images
   1. "In camera"  speed to SD card or CFexpress-B card.  Depends to specifications of memory card + CPU power of the camera / hardware system limitations.
   2. Download by USB cable to e.g a laptop.  As already mentioned.  A good quality USB cable is needed. (Best with good "shielded" specifications).
       And also you have to switch off the WiFi of a laptop. As  WiFi and USB by its nature / physics, do have a negative influence to each other
       by electromagnetic interference.  Not only as by WiFi 2.4 GHz  band and USB (already mentioned by  Intel PDF white papers in 2012).
       But the more high speeds in general, the more sensitive for interference (also at 5 GHz).  And precautions has to be taken.

       + the system hardware limitations as by camera system itself.    I doubt that it can be improved further by software?

So most "limitations" are related to the hardware system of the S1R camera, and can not be improved so much any-more by firmware updates.
      

The arguments sound like they come from the Panasonic sales department😉 But I am the (paying) user.

[Babylonia]

No, just realistic expectations and common sense.  😜

[DirkZ]

A new firmware for S1(R)(H) has been released 16th January 2024. It is for compatibility with the new Lumix 100mm Macro lens.

https://av.jpn.support.panasonic.com/support/global/cs/dsc/download/index4.html

[01maciel]

Am 18.1.2024 um 16:21 schrieb DirkZ:

A new firmware for S1(R)(H) has been released 16th January 2024. It is for compatibility with the new Lumix 100mm Macro lens.

Yes, I know. This is a 'feature' to promote the sale of lenses, not for the camera itself

[jaapv]

On 1/7/2024 at 7:23 PM, 01maciel said:

What comes in my mind is

- AF needs to be improved/updated
- transfer of focal length information to the Exif data for manual lenses
- wider spread of EV steps (currently max 1EV) for exposure bracketing
- Live Composite of the S5 would be a nice
- Optimisation of the menu structure
- Response behaviour and sensitivity of the joystick
- Download speed of the images
- Optimisation of the menu structure

If the S5 ii has these things why wouldn’t the S1Rii have them? 

[jdlaing]

What S1RII?

[01maciel]

vor einer Stunde schrieb jdlaing:

What S1RII?

Poor man's SL3 🙂

[01maciel]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb jaapv:

If the S5 ii has these things why wouldn’t the S1Rii have them? 

The S1R x is supposed to be Panasonics flagship. There are always overlaps between functionalities, features and hardware of different models from one manufacturer. This is imho also the case with the SL3, M11 and Q3.

[jaapv]

6 minutes ago, 01maciel said:

The S1R x is supposed to be Panasonics flagship. There are always overlaps between functionalities, features and hardware of different models from one manufacturer. This is imho also the case with the SL3, M11 and Q3.

Precisely. That is why I expect a S1Rii to follow the S5ii in specifications -at least. The same for a possible S1RiiX. 

[jdlaing]

53 minutes ago, 01maciel said:

Poor man's SL3 🙂

I asked that question because there is no S1RII.

[01maciel]

vor 45 Minuten schrieb jaapv:

Precisely. That is why I expect a S1Rii to follow the S5ii in specifications -at least. The same for a possible S1RiiX. 

Agreed, but that was not the point of my initial post. I criticise the model maintenance of Panasonic's flagship. After the camera was released, a few bugs in the firmware were fixed and a few lacklustre features were added, and that was it. No further support. Now you are invited to switch to the new S1R II model. Because the new model is much faster, shinier and more bling. That's the point at which I no longer play along with Panasonic. Pity, good camera but inadequate support. They have copied that from Sony 👾

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[01maciel]

vor 17 Minuten schrieb jdlaing:

I asked that question because there is no S1RII.

Correct, not yet.  Rumours have been spreading on the Internet for some time, e.g. https://www.l-rumors.com/