pico Posted October 18, 2018 Share #141 Posted October 18, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) Just now, lct said: Or a one short stroke process as on the R-D1 but the Visoflex wouldn't change anything then. Seriously? Using the Visoflex changes everything in shutter behavior! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 18, 2018 Posted October 18, 2018 Hi pico, Take a look here M10 M-D. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
rosuna Posted October 18, 2018 Share #142 Posted October 18, 2018 3 minutes ago, pico said: Manually cocking the shutter takes little energy and definitely compromises Visoflex use. Silent? Which makes more noise, cocking or activation. Do you know? Manually cocking the shutter may be delayed. The automatic cocking adds noise to the shutter actuation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted October 18, 2018 Share #143 Posted October 18, 2018 1 minute ago, pico said: Seriously? Using the Visoflex changes everything in shutter behavior! Why so? It is just a matter of shutter actuation by a motor or a lever i would think but i'm no techie at all... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted October 18, 2018 Share #144 Posted October 18, 2018 7 minutes ago, rosuna said: Manually cocking the shutter may be delayed. The automatic cocking adds noise to the shutter actuation. OK, so your decisive moment becomes what, 'kinda maybe'? And throws the camera out of Visoflex use. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted October 18, 2018 Share #145 Posted October 18, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, pico said: OK, so your decisive moment becomes what, 'kinda maybe'? And throws the camera out of Visoflex use. Many photographers need discretion for decisive moments... If the camera offers Visoflex, manual cocking may be just an option. Anyway, a lever for any other function than cocking the shutter is silly. Edited October 18, 2018 by rosuna 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted October 18, 2018 Share #146 Posted October 18, 2018 4 minutes ago, rosuna said: If the camera offers Visoflex, manual cocking may be an option So, one has elected to use a Visoflex, then he must first cock the manual shutter lever to open the curtains. Let us assume he has already done that to be ready for a photo. Meanwhile the battery is draining for as long he is in the mode. Then he decides to make the photo. Does he have to recock the shutter or does it do its own thing: Close the shutter, then open for the exposure (obviating stealth and taking more time)? And finally leaving the Visoflex dark until he cocks the lever again? All that strikes me as anti-Leica behavior. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashkanani1985 Posted October 18, 2018 Share #147 Posted October 18, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) The only thing that i cant figure out how to move the focus point while using EVF in this M10-D ? Best use for EVF is to be able to focuse on whole frame so lets see how they do it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucerne Posted October 18, 2018 Share #148 Posted October 18, 2018 4 minutes ago, Ashkanani1985 said: The only thing that i cant figure out how to move the focus point while using EVF in this M10-D ? Best use for EVF is to be able to focuse on whole frame so lets see how they do it There’s no point in having a movable focus point. The lens can’t respond. Its manual. Metering point might be possible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted October 18, 2018 Share #149 Posted October 18, 2018 They won't i suspect. The focus point is stuck at the centre of the frame on all M cameras so far. Same on the digital CL with M lenses BTW. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted October 18, 2018 Share #150 Posted October 18, 2018 (edited) 21 minutes ago, lucerne said: There’s no point in having a movable focus point. I beg to differ. It is almost impossible to nail focus anywhere else than at the centre of the frame on current M cameras. In LV mode, the focus point should be moveable at will the same way as on all modern cameras IMHO. Edited October 18, 2018 by lct 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gotium Posted October 19, 2018 Share #151 Posted October 19, 2018 Loved the M-D, mostly because of the simplicity with the excellent ISO dial on the back. Would have loved to see an M10 version with that. No simplicity here; this thing looks like a jumbled Frankenstein of used parts. As one other commenter noted, this one will be easy to resist. Shame. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted October 19, 2018 Share #152 Posted October 19, 2018 (edited) I try to think about the M10-D that we are hearing and seeing hints of by pretending that I am a member of the team developing the camera. Last time around, we took an M262 , which is an M240 with stuff left out, and left even more stuff out, covered it in a nice leather, and made a small number of people very happy. This time, we have an M10-P to start with. There is even more stuff that we would have to leave out, and leaving things out is work, too. Maybe we can move ahead by providing ways to use some of its features (optionally, of course) while still offering the nice leather covering, and make a larger number of people very happy. Since the Auto-ISO is exposed on the dial which reminds us of the film winder that goes back to the M2 and M3 days, we do have to deal with some of the underlying complexity, but we do it in such a way that the product can still be unwrapped and used in its default form -- an $8000 ;point 'n shoot! What we would probably not anticipate is that the P 'n S folks would look over their shoulders at the larger number of about-to-be-made-happy customers with their Visoflexes and iPhones at the ready and recoil in horror. I hope we'll know next week. Edited October 19, 2018 by scott kirkpatrick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted October 19, 2018 Share #153 Posted October 19, 2018 (edited) vor 6 Stunden schrieb lct: I beg to differ. It is almost impossible to nail focus anywhere else than at the centre of the frame on current M cameras. In LV mode, the focus point should be moveable at will the same way as on all modern cameras IMHO. Perhaps I misunderstand what you mean, but it is possible to move the focus point in LV with the M10. Of course M-lenses won‘t focus automatically at any point in the field, but you can do it manually: You shift the position of the detail within the image field by the direction pad and get a target cross to indicate the center of detail. With the M10-P you can do it on the touchscreen. Since the M10-D does not seem to have a direction pad (and of course no screen) it seems as if this would not be possible. It wasn‘t possible with the M240. Edited October 19, 2018 by UliWer 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
evikne Posted October 19, 2018 Share #154 Posted October 19, 2018 (edited) I would love the shutter sound similar to an M9 without the re-cocking (because we do it manually). Probably even quieter than the M10-P! Edited October 19, 2018 by evikne Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted October 19, 2018 Share #155 Posted October 19, 2018 1 hour ago, UliWer said: Perhaps I misunderstand what you mean, but it is possible to move the focus point in LV with the M10 My bad sorry. I can't do it with either M240 or CL so i assumed the same brainless genius has designed the M10. 😉 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.noctilux Posted October 19, 2018 Share #156 Posted October 19, 2018 1 hour ago, lct said: My bad sorry. I can't do it with either M240 or CL so i assumed the same brainless genius has designed the M10. 😉 I can talk only about this "movable target" in M10. While I wanted the "meter spot" or "magnified portion" movable on M240, it was added in M10 features. So with M10, the Spot metering and magnified target can be "put anywhere" with direction pad. For me very nice forward move from M240 family to M10. ... Maybe this usefull/nice feature 😍 can be "left" in M10-D with Visoflex use. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted October 19, 2018 Share #157 Posted October 19, 2018 16 minutes ago, a.noctilux said: Maybe this usefull/nice feature 😍 can be "left" in M10-D with Visoflex use I would be interested then, provided Leica "re-invents" a reversible display a-la R-D1 and a decent Visoflex w/o EVF lag. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 2 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/287562-m10-m-d/?do=findComment&comment=3615365'>More sharing options...
rramesh Posted October 19, 2018 Share #158 Posted October 19, 2018 (edited) A big drain on the battery is the LCD screen and shutter. How about a manual shutter lever and powered by a really small battery, like a CR2032 battery? Would be a great way to reduce weight I think. An almost fully manual rangefinder with a digital sensor. Edited October 19, 2018 by rramesh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted October 19, 2018 Share #159 Posted October 19, 2018 vor 1 Stunde schrieb a.noctilux: ... Maybe this usefull/nice feature 😍 can be "left" in M10-D with Visoflex use. Well, you need something to move the focussing point on the Visoflex screen. Since the direction pad on the rear side of the M10-D seems to be left out, I don't see another device to apply the movements. One might think of the app. Though all I have seen of the app yet was that you could not move anything, not even zoom into the view, leave alone moving the focussing point. I may have lost the last developments of the app during the public beta-test, since with the latest version each time I tried to connect the camera to the app lead to a complete "freeze" of my M10. Only taking out the battery and inserting it again made the camera work again. So at present I am completely unable to use this app - and I am very very sure, that I will not trust it when it goes public officially next week. Whoever may be interested in a M10-D hoping he may use the app for some functions he otherwise misses: wait until you can be very sure that the app is usable at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted October 19, 2018 Share #160 Posted October 19, 2018 The FOTOS app, since it uses a phone's touch-sensitive screen, permits touch-focusing on the CL and SL. So in principle the center for focus magnification could be moved around. But since there is no touch-screen interface in the M10's firmware, it would be a lot of work to use that pathway with an M10-D. I don't think the L-mount firmware people (they seem to be different folks from the M firmware team) would be eager to do it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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