90-280/2.8-4

[cpclee]

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Strictly in terms of optical quality, long telephoto primes from all major Japanese camera makers are outstanding.  This is why Zeiss does not bother issuing premium 3rd party lenses in that focal length range because there simply is no other kind.  Having said that, CA control and APO quality are the slight distinction between excellent and epic.  Leica's requirements for the APO designation are much more strict than other manufacturers, requiring convergence of 3 colors (as opposed to 2) across the whole frame, and at the widest aperture.  Many Leica lenses not designated as APO exceed APO standards of other manufacturers. Zeiss' standards are equally strict.

 

The Leica APO telephotos and the Zeiss superachromats for the Hasselblad V system are simply the best telephotos on earth for civilian applications and they have not been surpassed. For example, for the Zeiss 300/2.8 tele-superahromat "Telephoto Power Pack", they only had enough supply of the rare glasses needed to make 300 units along with repair inventory.  So they literally made only 300 which they offered only to their most valued customers.  My neighbor is one of the lucky 300 owners and has taken this lens onto numerous expeditions in the north and south poles.  His prints of polar bears and penguins (I'm going to guess about 80"x80" in size) are absolutely humbling in quality. 

 

There is good, and then there is GOOD.

 

Based on the classical use case of long lenses (nature, sport, portraits):

 

- Pros: The Canon is one stop faster, amazing AF, 4-stops image stabilization, easily outresolves 24 MP wide open (I have not tested with 50+ MP, but I am sure it will have no problem), weather-proof.

 

- Cons: It weighs 25% more and is bigger.

 

I don't know if the level of chromatic correction is the same, but the Canon is amazing. Note: Canon does not use the "apo" designation, although the lens has state-of-the-art optics.

[cpclee]

The story behind the development of the Zeiss TPP is found here:  

 

http://www.zeiss.com/content/dam/Photography/new/pdf/en/cln_archiv/cln05_en_web.pdf

 

Note that they first secured a small batch of a rare glass and then designed a lens around it.  This of course is unconventional.  

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[CheshireCat]

Strictly in terms of optical quality, long telephoto primes from all major Japanese camera makers are outstanding.  This is why Zeiss does not bother issuing premium 3rd party lenses in that focal length range because there simply is no other kind. 

 

... also because no one would buy a long tele without AF.

 

Leica's requirements for the APO designation are much more strict than other manufacturers, requiring convergence of 3 colors (as opposed to 2) across the whole frame, and at the widest aperture.  Many Leica lenses not designated as APO exceed APO standards of other manufacturers. Zeiss' standards are equally strict.

 

The APO designation always implies 3 colors.

Unfortunately, this designation is too generic, as some of the 3 frequencies could be outside of the visible range, and there are no tolerance limits.

The real problem here is that generic designations are prone to be used by the marketing guys to cheat customers.

Even Leica did it: the APO Summicron 90 is far from a "strict" APO lens.

 

The Leica APO telephotos and the Zeiss superachromats for the Hasselblad V system are simply the best telephotos on earth for civilian applications and they have not been surpassed. For example, for the Zeiss 300/2.8 tele-superahromat "Telephoto Power Pack", they only had enough supply of the rare glasses needed to make 300 units along with repair inventory.  So they literally made only 300 which they offered only to their most valued customers.

 

Are they still unsurpassed after so many years ?

It would great to see a comparison between - say - the Zeiss 300/2.8 and the Canon 300/2.8.

[wildlightphoto]

 

 

 

... also because no one would buy a long tele without AF.

 

 

 

Apparently I'm no one.

[CheshireCat]

Apparently I'm no one.

 

 

I stand corrected.

We need a few tens of thousands more like you, and Zeiss will produce one

[wlaidlaw]

Well there is always the Zeiss 1700mm/f4, which looks like a Zeppelin. When I saw it at Photokina, I asked what the price was. I was told "if you need to ask, you can't afford it." The small black blob on the end is actually a Hasselblad V camera and I would guess what looks like a cream knob half way down is actually a trunnion to sit in a yoke to support the lens. 

 

Wilson

 

 

 

 

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[cpclee]

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I'd want (if not prefer) no AF on any prime lens.

 

In practice most manufacturers zero 2 colors. The third color is reduced but not zeroed.  On the other hand the Zeiss superachromats are corrected even into the infrared range.

 

Passage of time alone is no guarantee of a better design.  It took 40 years for Leica to come up with a better 50 Summicron with the 50AA. The last Leica APO telyts and the Zeiss superachromats and 38/4.5 Biogon on the SWC are all practically not improvable at a reasonable cost.

 

You are not going to find many images shot on the Zeiss 300/2.8 TPP let alone tests.  Reportedly Zeiss ended up making only about 150-200 copies because of manufacturing difficulties.  Brand new they were sold at over $20k each.  I don't think you can buy one at less than $35-50k today. 

 

The two pictures on the bottom right were taken by my said neighbor on his north / south pole expeditions with his Zeiss 300/2.8 TPP.   These were shot on 6x6 film.  Even in these small web scans you can get a sense of what this lens is capable.  If you ever see an actual print the size of a wall it's truly humbling.  Complete absence of CA and glorious micro contrast is how I'd characterize the rendering.  

 

http://www.jazzimage.com.tw/gallery_exhibition_inner.aspx?Id=50

 

 

 

 

... also because no one would buy a long tele without AF.

 

 

The APO designation always implies 3 colors.

Unfortunately, this designation is too generic, as some of the 3 frequencies could be outside of the visible range, and there are no tolerance limits.

The real problem here is that generic designations are prone to be used by the marketing guys to cheat customers.

Even Leica did it: the APO Summicron 90 is far from a "strict" APO lens.

 

 

Are they still unsurpassed after so many years ?

It would great to see a comparison between - say - the Zeiss 300/2.8 and the Canon 300/2.8.

 

Edited March 25, 2016 by cpclee

[cpclee]

They did a good job hiding the propeller.

 

Well there is always the Zeiss 1700mm/f4, which looks like a Zeppelin. When I saw it at Photokina, I asked what the price was. I was told "if you need to ask, you can't afford it." The small black blob on the end is actually a Hasselblad V camera and I would guess what looks like a cream knob half way down is actually a trunnion to sit in a yoke to support the lens. 

 

Wilson

[ramarren]

Well there is always the Zeiss 1700mm/f4, which looks like a Zeppelin. When I saw it at Photokina, I asked what the price was. I was told "if you need to ask, you can't afford it." The small black blob on the end is actually a Hasselblad V camera and I would guess what looks like a cream knob half way down is actually a trunnion to sit in a yoke to support the lens. 

 

 

Is it hydrogen- or helium-filled? 

 

Quite the monster ...! 

[LocalHero1953]

SL90-280 is priced at £4650 in Red Dot, which I assume is Leica list price. Leica UK has not updated its price list yet.

You can do a lot with the SL, the 24-90, and the odd R or M lens. I suspect this one is priced for the "low production run" category.

Edited March 25, 2016 by LocalHero1953

[AlanJW]

Well there is always the Zeiss 1700mm/f4, which looks like a Zeppelin. When I saw it at Photokina, I asked what the price was. I was told "if you need to ask, you can't afford it." The small black blob on the end is actually a Hasselblad V camera and I would guess what looks like a cream knob half way down is actually a trunnion to sit in a yoke to support the lens. 

 

Wilson

Nah.  Yoke or not, it weighs more than 500lbs, and I heard the bokeh is awful.  I'll pass.

[ramarren]

SL90-280 is priced at £4650 in Red Dot, which I assume is Leica list price. Leica UK has not updated its price list yet.

You can do a lot with the SL, the 24-90, and the odd R or M lens. I suspect this one is priced for the "low production run" category.

 

 

Indeed. For my needs, the SL with SL24-90, Super-Elmar-R 15mm, and Elmar-R 180mm is a very compelling kit (although I'd more likely carry the R 24, 50, and 90 rather than the zoom).

 

However, for those that want to take advantage of either AF or image stabilization, the 90-280 will be a great lens and a good complement to the 24-90. 

[jmahto]

Indeed. For my needs, the SL with SL24-90, Super-Elmar-R 15mm, and Elmar-R 180mm is a very compelling kit (although I'd more likely carry the R 24, 50, and 90 rather than the zoom).

 

However, for those that want to take advantage of either AF or image stabilization, the 90-280 will be a great lens and a good complement to the 24-90. 

Curious about 180 elmar. Does it perform well to your expectation? It is quite cheap, that's why I am asking.

[ramarren]

Curious about 180 elmar. Does it perform well to your expectation? It is quite cheap, that's why I am asking.

 

 

I like the results I've gotten with the Elmar-R 180mm f/4 very much, and it's a delight to use since it is so small and light.

Here's an example with the 180/4 on the SL:

 

 

Edited March 25, 2016 by ramarren

[cpclee]

I got to handle the new 90-280 just now.  It was one of the three copies Leica Store Soho received and pre-sold, so I wasn't able to mount the lens on a body.  But in person the lens didn't feel big or heavy at all. The weight balanced really well in the hand and was evenly distributed.  

 

Whatever concerns I had about the size/weight of this lens are now gone.  I may or may not buy it but the size/weight will not be part of the consideration.

[ramarren]

I got to handle the new 90-280 just now.  It was one of the three copies Leica Store Soho received and pre-sold, so I wasn't able to mount the lens on a body.  But in person the lens didn't feel big or heavy at all. The weight balanced really well in the hand and was evenly distributed.  

 

Whatever concerns I had about the size/weight of this lens are now gone.  I may or may not buy it but the size/weight will not be part of the consideration.

 

 

Good to hear that. I look forward to seeing one when the tech rep brings one in to the local store. 

[cpclee]

Technical data sheet with MTFs now available on Leica's site. Look amazing.  At f5.6, this lens seems to be better than the 70-180/2.8 at the same aperture at both the short and long ends.  At that same aperture it also looks better than the 180/2.8 APO but not the 280/4 APO.

Edited March 26, 2016 by cpclee

[wildlightphoto]

Curious about 180 elmar. Does it perform well to your expectation? It is quite cheap, that's why I am asking.

 

 

The image quality is pleasing but don't expect APO-like performance.  My copy flared readily when  sunlight was anywhere near touching the front element.

Edited March 26, 2016 by wildlightphoto

[wildlightphoto]

At f5.6, this lens seems to be better than the 70-180/2.8 at the same aperture at both the short and long ends. 

 

There's hope for a softening of asking price for the 70-180 APO

Edited March 26, 2016 by wildlightphoto

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Hallo,

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[wildlightphoto]

Technical data sheet with MTFs now available on Leica's site. 

 

Looks like it's no substitute for the 280/4 APO.