Guest borge Posted July 18, 2013 Share #101 Posted July 18, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Judging from the test shots, I would send this lens back as soon as possible. I would not accept this from any brand, and least of all the "flagship" lens from Leica. This is not a problem with this specific lens. I know of two others that has owned and sold the 50/2 APO due to the exact same reasons and experience. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 18, 2013 Posted July 18, 2013 Hi Guest borge, Take a look here APO Summicron 50/2 ASPH: Central veiling flare / fogging. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Erik Gunst Lund Posted July 18, 2013 Share #102 Posted July 18, 2013 This is not a problem with this specific lens. I know of two others that has owned and sold the 50/2 APO due to the exact same reasons and experience. Indeed very disappointing... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Gunst Lund Posted July 18, 2013 Share #103 Posted July 18, 2013 Looks related to me, just more intense. I don't have this shooting with other lenses. This is not an abnormal shot, it shouldn't be flaring like that. OK, related... But not 'central' as like a 'hot spot' where it is completely centered. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
helged Posted July 18, 2013 Share #104 Posted July 18, 2013 (edited) Here's a better set of the earlier images...each set of three shot at 2/5.6/16. You can see that even at 5.6 the problem is visible. Would be interesting to learn the findings from other APO-50 owners adopting the same procedure - three images with aperture 2/5.6/16 - checking whether reduced contrast in the central frame is the rule or the exception. To reduce one parameter in the play, avoid sun beams hitting the frontal lens element. But include highlights near or slightly off the central axis of the lens. One observation: If you look down onto the front of the lens from above so that the axis of the lens is normal to your eyes, and gradually rotate the lens towards you so more and more of the central lens elements are seen, then the internal reflection from the frontal lens elements change rapidly at a rotation angle of 15-20 degrees. Could it be that this change in reflection characteristics - almost like deformed, spherical mirrors are located within the lens - direct off-center highlights to the sensor, reducing central contrast? Enough speculation from a novice in Summicron land - time for (more) testing! Edited July 18, 2013 by helged Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted July 18, 2013 Share #105 Posted July 18, 2013 even more interesting to see if the old solution of a non imaging mask behind the rear element would work as people say it does on the version 4 Summicron. Check the posts from years ago. For those who do not remember, it was circular with a 2x3 ratio rectangle cut in as large as possible. Should not have to do this, but. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim.grover Posted July 18, 2013 Share #106 Posted July 18, 2013 This is not a problem with this specific lens. I know of two others that has owned and sold the 50/2 APO due to the exact same reasons and experience. Thanks for this...albeit concerning! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
platypus Posted July 19, 2013 Share #107 Posted July 19, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Looks related to me, just more intense. I don't have this shooting with other lenses. This is not an abnormal shot, it shouldn't be flaring like that. That was my thought also. But I really love this lens.............. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
helged Posted July 19, 2013 Share #108 Posted July 19, 2013 (edited) For what it's worth - no loss of central contrast with the APO-50 on M240 in my case. And I have tried hard taking triple exposures at f2/5.6/16, plus looking though the EVF with the lens at f16. No loss of central contrast, yet. But I do get (standard) flaring when highlights fall onto the lens at an angle of 15-20 deg and if the lens is stopped down a bit. Ex below, no processing. From top: f2/5.6/16, with the sun just above the buildings and the sun rays hitting the lens. Lens shade not in use here to maximise the effect. So perhaps there are differences between the lenses when it comes to loss of central contrast? As far as I recall, I'm not the only one on this forum that are 'unsuccessful' generating loss of central contrast. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited July 19, 2013 by helged Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/208297-apo-summicron-502-asph-central-veiling-flare-fogging/?do=findComment&comment=2377944'>More sharing options...
lct Posted July 19, 2013 Share #109 Posted July 19, 2013 Thanks for sharing but it is hardly a standard flare i'm afraid, otherwise the result would not be good at f/2. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
helged Posted July 19, 2013 Share #110 Posted July 19, 2013 Ok, perhaps not standard flare, but no loss of central contrast in my case. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest borge Posted July 19, 2013 Share #111 Posted July 19, 2013 It would be interesting if someone that has a 50/2 APO and a Summilux 50 ASPH could perform a comparative test. I know of one person that performed such a test (without providing any examples as he did it for him self) and the APO was much, much worse than the Summilux in every example. So the APO was sold rather quickly. I'm pretty sure that the Summilux won't show anywhere near as much loss of contrast / flare as the APO does in every case. Which if I'm correct, is really bad considering the APO's premium price (almost double) over the Summilux. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizard Posted July 19, 2013 Share #112 Posted July 19, 2013 (edited) Since the flare only seems to develop when the lens is stopped down (it actually seems to get worse on stopping down), the only quick solution in my view would be to use aperture blades having a matt black surface finish. That solution would also be retrofittable to existing lenses. Given the price of the lens, carbon fiber aperture blades might be appropriate. Let's see how Leica deals with this problem. Andy Edited July 19, 2013 by wizard Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted July 19, 2013 Share #113 Posted July 19, 2013 I think I'll just stick with my 'crappy' 1.4/50 Summilux ASPH for the moment Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted July 19, 2013 Share #114 Posted July 19, 2013 Ok, perhaps not standard flare, but no loss of central contrast in my case. We must be looking at different photographs. Quite a loss of central contrast to my eyes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizard Posted July 19, 2013 Share #115 Posted July 19, 2013 If my understanding is not entirely wrong, then flare will necessarily result in a more or less significant loss of contrast in those portions of the image that are affected by the flare. Andy Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
helged Posted July 19, 2013 Share #116 Posted July 19, 2013 (edited) Quite a loss of central contrast to my eyes. ...but not the isolated loss of central contrast as seen here, here and here (for the latter link, see the following two posts as well). In post #108, the flare originates at/near the edge; it doesn't pup up, in isolation, in the central part of the image. Edited July 19, 2013 by helged Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizard Posted July 19, 2013 Share #117 Posted July 19, 2013 ...but not the isolated loss of central contrast as seen here, here and here (for the latter link, see the following two posts as well). Flare is flare, it is just more or less pronounced. In the examples you mention, there is no flare at full aperture, but there is some flare (and the resulting loss of contrast) once the lens is stopped down. It may well be internal flare, generated by the white and bright portions of the scene being reflected off the aperture blades of the lens (note that also in your examples there are brightly lit portions in each scene) and leading to that diffuse flaring phenomenon which you refer to as loss of contrast. In my view, the root cause is flare, otherwise the loss of contrast would not be limited to just the central part of the image. Andy Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest borge Posted July 19, 2013 Share #118 Posted July 19, 2013 (edited) ...but not the isolated loss of central contrast as seen here, here and here (for the latter link, see the following two posts as well). In post #108, the flare originates at/near the edge; it doesn't pup up, in isolation, in the central part of the image. Getting a bit too technical and focused on details and semantics maybe? To put it simply, the images that has the "white foggy shit in the middle" looks like crap due to the fact that the lens handles normal light at certain angles poorly. Edited July 19, 2013 by borge Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
helged Posted July 20, 2013 Share #119 Posted July 20, 2013 (edited) Test images from different 50 mm lenses have been requested, and here follows one example. For all images: M240, no processing, no filer, aperture f2/5.6/16, shutter spd 750/90/12, lens shade not used (for the purpose of the illustration), handheld. First triple out is APO-50. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited July 20, 2013 by helged Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/208297-apo-summicron-502-asph-central-veiling-flare-fogging/?do=findComment&comment=2378639'>More sharing options...
helged Posted July 20, 2013 Share #120 Posted July 20, 2013 (edited) Second triple is 50 Summilux, latest version. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited July 20, 2013 by helged 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/208297-apo-summicron-502-asph-central-veiling-flare-fogging/?do=findComment&comment=2378640'>More sharing options...
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