lct Posted July 10, 2013 Share #41 Posted July 10, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Here is a link to a series of photos demonstrating the central fogging with the 50 AA.... Stupid question, you did not use a filter right? If not, all i can say is it is indeed flare to me and this is not acceptable at this price level. I know that all lenses do flare more or less but a mere Elmar 50/2.8 v2 would do better than that. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 10, 2013 Posted July 10, 2013 Hi lct, Take a look here APO Summicron 50/2 ASPH: Central veiling flare / fogging. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
brill64 Posted July 10, 2013 Share #42 Posted July 10, 2013 (edited) My point is that 50 AA gives occasional flaring in circumstances where I have not had any with my previous M lenses. It should be easy to check flare with this lens using an evf on the M. Personally speaking, flare gives character. I'm not overly impressed by surgical precision in a lens, whatever the cost. Edited July 10, 2013 by brill64 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted July 10, 2013 Share #43 Posted July 10, 2013 Personally speaking, flare gives character. I don't mind a bit of "classic" flare – especially if I'm photographing into a bright light source – but I wouldn't want to spend £5400 for a no-expense-spared 50mm and still have to deal with this kind of fairly unpredictable central fogging/veiling flare. I don't have or want a new M (and if I did I would want to use the RF) so using an EVF isn't much of a solution. I can only imagine that pajamies' lens is faulty and if I was him I'd be asking Leica for a replacement. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shade Posted July 11, 2013 Share #44 Posted July 11, 2013 It should be easy to check flare with this lens using an evf on the M. Personally speaking, flare gives character. I'm not overly impressed by surgical precision in a lens, whatever the cost. Flaring is acceptable and artistic. But when it flares when you dont want it to (or supposed to), then it presents a problem on its own. I love flare and I incorporate flares in my photography quite often. But as someone mention if it flared on a cloudy day or when the sun is behind the camera, then I dont think that is acceptable. To me thats just wierd. Moreover, I also understand about surgical precision etc etc. but Im afraid that is not what most of us is worrying about. More to the point is that the apo asph which costs (almost double) more than the Summilux Asph, has this problem while thr summilux renders such "wierd" problems obsolete. When you buy something "more expensive", you always expect it to perform BETTER than its "cheaper" counterparts. And it applies to any other products. This veiling problem has been persistent since previous versions and given the chance for Leica in creating a new design that incorporates apo-asph elements, the apo summicron should perform wonders and deal with every situation better than the summilux. Im not a tech wonder and what I say is obviously incorrect in technical terms, but if the new apo asph is not as expected, I would be better to "downsize" a summilux asph to an F2 lens and create a smaller case/lens body for it and it would perform up to par at the least in every situation. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
platypus Posted July 11, 2013 Share #45 Posted July 11, 2013 Apparently some APO 50s don't have a flare problem....this shot was taken this morning (APO 50 on MM) shooting almost directly into a low early morning winter sun. There was some diffusion due to clearing fog conditions, but I expected flare and there is none. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 13 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/208297-apo-summicron-502-asph-central-veiling-flare-fogging/?do=findComment&comment=2371553'>More sharing options...
lct Posted July 11, 2013 Share #46 Posted July 11, 2013 Nice pic. Seems like flare comes from light sources outside the frame though. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shade Posted July 11, 2013 Share #47 Posted July 11, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Nice pic. Seems like flare comes from light sources outside the frame though. What he said, which is IMHO wierd. Also some reported happening when the sun is behind the camera.. I have no idea who technically that could happen, like seriously wierd.. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
helged Posted July 11, 2013 Share #48 Posted July 11, 2013 Apparently some APO 50s don't have a flare problem....this shot was taken this morning (APO 50 on MM) shooting almost directly into a low early morning winter sun. Beautiful photo! Apparently, fogging is not that prominent when the sun is directly into the lens. The main problem is when the sun/highlight is somewhat off the axis of the lens. It's also hard to tell whether your lens have the fogging from the photo due to the white background. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted July 11, 2013 Share #49 Posted July 11, 2013 What he said, which is IMHO wierd... Flare comes often from light sources outside the frame, typically the sun just above the latter. Not behind the photog though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Gunst Lund Posted July 11, 2013 Share #50 Posted July 11, 2013 (edited) Flare comes often from light sources outside the frame, typically the sun just above the latter. Not behind the photog though. Just saying; Many WA lenses 14mm etc. has protuding front elements and does risk flare from very far back, Nikon 14.24mm come to mind, also especially Fish eye lenses can catch the light from behind the photographer...16mm 10.5mm 8mm and Nikon 6mm f/2.8 with 220 deg field of view... Edited July 11, 2013 by Erik Gunst Lund Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Gunst Lund Posted July 11, 2013 Share #51 Posted July 11, 2013 .....This veiling problem has been persistent since previous versions.... Yes with the early 50mm Summicron lenses I agree. However not with the latest versions of the 50mm Summicrons. So far I have not seen any conclusive proper test shoving any abnormal behaviur from any of the current 50mm Summicrons. Both perform very well, no flare at all, loss of contranst for some angles when shooting close to the sun in the frame, yes but nothing alarming or anything a working photographer would not anticipate and imidiatly spot and compensate for. Threads like this are a little sad to see here on the Forum IMHO, I would think the level of expertiece would be a lttle higher as to no just feed the urban legends. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeswe Posted July 11, 2013 Share #52 Posted July 11, 2013 Apparently some APO 50s don't have a flare problem....this shot was taken this morning (APO 50 on MM) shooting almost directly into a low early morning winter sun.There was some diffusion due to clearing fog conditions, but I expected flare and there is none. Unfortunately in the given context, your picture doesn't prove a lot. Few if any question the flare resistance of the Summicron 50 (APO or last spherical) against direct light sources within the frame, and your very nice sample picture corroborates that. However, the discussion here (and in numerous other threads on this topic) is about flare from light sources at an oblique angle just outside the frame, which produces a blotch of haze/milkiness/contrast loss/flare (whatever you name it) in the central part of the image, which, given it's nature, is especially visible against dark or medium bright objects in the image. What he said, which is IMHO wierd. Also some reported happening when the sun is behind the camera.. I have no idea who technically that could happen, like seriously wierd.. Not weird at all, IMO, as the light source causing this flare doesn't have to be the sun. It can be any sort of bright highlight, even the sky on an overcast day, can cause this. That is what makes it so ugly and difficult to predict. So yes, it is entirely possible to encounter this type of flare when shooting with the sun behind you. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeswe Posted July 11, 2013 Share #53 Posted July 11, 2013 Both perform very well, no flare at all, loss of contranst for some angles when shooting close to the sun in the frame. Exactly this loss of contrast is what is called "flare" and this is what we are talking about. You simply contradict yourself when you say the lens shows loss of contrast, but it does not flare at all. "When a bright light source is shining on the lens but not in its field of view, lens flare appears as a haze that washes out the image and reduces contrast." wikipedia: Lens flare Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Gunst Lund Posted July 11, 2013 Share #54 Posted July 11, 2013 (edited) Exactly this loss of contrast is what is called "flare" and this is what we are talking about. You simply contradict yourself when you say the lens shows loss of contrast, but it does not flare at all. "When a bright light source is shining on the lens but not in its field of view, lens flare appears as a haze that washes out the image and reduces contrast." wikipedia: Lens flare Then we just have to disagree If you look at all of the images in the WIKI you refer to you will see Flare yes. Flare is colored blobs apearing in the frame. Reduced contrast is related yes but not the same. Try to google images for : lens flare Edited July 11, 2013 by Erik Gunst Lund Added Google ref. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted July 11, 2013 Share #55 Posted July 11, 2013 Just for newbies Cambridge In Colour - Lens Flare 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shade Posted July 12, 2013 Share #56 Posted July 12, 2013 Nonetheless Im having a 50 summicron NON APO to try out for the few weeks ahead! Hopefully you guys can reach to some better conclusion.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pajamies Posted July 12, 2013 Author Share #57 Posted July 12, 2013 (edited) Erik Gunst Lund: "Threads like this are a little sad to see here on the Forum IMHO, I would think the level of expertiece would be a lttle higher as to no just feed the urban legends." I am certainly not spreading any urban legends, sir, just demonstrating what I see in the photos taken with my brand new 50 AA. Similar observations have been presented before me by Lloyd Chambers and others, I later found out, and observations have been confirmed here by helged. What is the concealed agenda, that makes you maintain that this thread has been opened to feed urban legends. Edited July 12, 2013 by pajamies 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pajamies Posted July 12, 2013 Author Share #58 Posted July 12, 2013 Stupid question, you did not use a filter right? If not, all i can say is it is indeed flare to me and this is not acceptable at this price level. I know that all lenses do flare more or less but a mere Elmar 50/2.8 v2 would do better than that. Exactly, no filter was used. The 50 AA lens and my Leica M are now on their way to Solms. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Gunst Lund Posted July 12, 2013 Share #59 Posted July 12, 2013 Erik Gunst Lund:"Threads like this are a little sad to see here on the Forum IMHO' date=' I would think the level of expertiece would be a lttle higher as to no just feed the urban legends." I am certainly not spreading any urban legends, sir, just demonstrating what I see in the photos taken with my brand new 50 AA. Similar observations have been repeated before me by Lloyd Chambers and others, and confirmed here by helged. What is the concealed agenda, that makes you maintain that this thread has been opened to feed urban legends.[/quote'] I dont see any firm proof for your statements. As I said. Accept that we disagree. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorman Posted July 12, 2013 Share #60 Posted July 12, 2013 I responded to a similar post recently regarding flare or fogging on a 50mm Summicron which I owned. (Apologies for the repetition, but it may be helpful.) In my case I believe it was caused by the metalwork at the exit end of the lens being anodised with a semi-gloss finish rather than matt black. (Possibly a faulty batch, I'm not sure). I returned the lens to Leica UK (alas no longer in existence) and they painted the offending surface matt black which fixed it. You can see the problem with the lens off the camera by holding it towards a light bulb and slowly turning away. At some point you will see a significant reflection from the metalwork. I no longer have the 50mm Summicron, but I have a picture of a Konica Hexanon M 90mm which illustrates the ridged area in question. It was in comparing this 90mm to the 50mm which first alerted me to the possible cause of the "foggy centre" effect. The 90mm is finished with very matt surface, whereas the equivalent area on the 50mm had the same black finish as the outside of the body, not really matt black at all. I looked through the lens off camera from the mount end at a light bulb. As I turned the lens away from the light there was a certain angle which caused quite a reflection from the ridged area. It only occurred over a small angle, which explained why sometimes the effect was there and sometimes not. It would be interesting to know if other 50mm Summicrons have this same finish on the ridged area. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/208297-apo-summicron-502-asph-central-veiling-flare-fogging/?do=findComment&comment=2372637'>More sharing options...
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