What would happen if the M9 was a flawed camera?

[ArtZ]

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OK, gentlemen, it’s Monday, you had a wonderful weekend and your sense of humor is on the top.

 

So what would happen if Leica found out a serious flaw in the M9 after 09/09/09 that requires modifying the camera (electronics and/or body). Remember the IR problem when the M8 hit the market and the SDS (Do you remember, guys, the transistor “T2”?).

 

Maybe Leica is just working extremely hard trying to find a solution. This could explain the actual delivery problems.

[stunsworth]

What if a delivery of tomato purée had accidentally been dropped on a pallet of sensors and they were waiting for replacements from Kodak - and even worse they'd had to make emergency changes to the canteen menu?

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[erl]

Personally I'm pissed off because my tomato puree I ordered for lunch has been delayed. Some silly story about an accident!

[carstenw]

Yeah, and where is my pallet???

[ianman]

Actually this idea isn't so far-fetched !

 

I spoke to a Leica rep last week who told me that not only deliveries were not picking up but she had received news from the horses mouth that they were being further delayed.

Then she said that, her hunch was that some modifications needed to be made to the M9. Like I say it was just her own thought about this so take it as such.

 

However, I have no reason to doubt the accuracy of the first comment about production and hence deliveries being at a stand still.

 

We shall see...

[carstenw]

The T2 transistor was apparently the same thing. The initial piece was borderline within spec most of the time, and occasionally failed. I think I recall that they had to go to another manufacturer. Sometimes this sort of thing forces a partial redesign.

[Eoin]

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Artz, obviously you had too much time to think over the weekend (lol).

 

Perhaps if such a flaw existed, early adopters would be yet again treated to a 30% discount on a lens, but some how I doubt it.

 

The problem from what I hear is this, the small elves have started industrial action, they are dismayed at the workload involved in banging away on the hammer tone finish to get consistent patterns of finish. It is anticipated once management agree to a 30% increase, production should start flowing again.

[sandymc]

Actually I have it on very good authority that there is a production line problem.

 

Apparently almost all of the elves on the M9 line are right-handed. This is resulting the well known red-edge-on-the-left-hand-side-of-the-frame problem, because all the elves hammer from the right when installing the sensor. Which of course results in the sensor being off to the left.

 

Leica is currently frantically attempting to hire left-handed elves such that they can balance out sensor installation.

 

Sandy

[carstenw]

Can't they just turn them upside down? A little rope would help here...

[chris_tribble]

Last thing I heard was that the factory had been forced onto a 3 day week as a result of German government job preservation policy - any one in Germany able to confirm/deny this? I certainly don't think there's a flaw in the camera - with the latest LR profile I'm very satisfied! Check:

The English Seaside.

[luigi bertolotti]

Real issue is the contemporary ramp-up of S2... my M9, just arrived, has a fantastic 30x45 sensor, and my lenses, misteriously, have started to Auto-Focus ! (only the 6 bit coded - to be true... the glorious Elmar 5 cm has still to be rotated by its knob...)

[marknorton]

Joking aside, I'm still waiting to hear why the 18mm Super-Elmar gives the red left edge to the image. It's great that CornerFix can handle it but Sandy's tests show a clear asymmetry to the sensor performance.

 

I still don't understand how they squeezed the sensor and the battery into the space available and the M9 lens throat is still more crowded than in a film M (my M6). There remains the possibility they have mounted the sensor off-centre as the least-worst option in bringing the M9 to market in double-quick time.

 

Maybe Leica thought we wouldn't notice. They wouldn't have been that stupid, surely? Would they?

 

IMHO, the M9 is a stop-gap camera, destined to play a keeping-the-company-in-business role before it's replaced with the camera they should have developed all along.

Edited October 26, 2009 by marknorton

[stunsworth]

There remains the possibility they have mounted the sensor off-centre as the least-worst option in bringing the M9 to market in double-quick time.

 

Wouldn't that have lead to asymmetric vignetting? Shouldn't it be possible to see/measure any offset by looking at the relationship between the lens mount and sensor?

[ArtZ]

Wouldn't that have lead to asymmetric vignetting? Shouldn't it be possible to see/measure any offset by looking at the relationship between the lens mount and sensor?

 

Here's an interesting post concerning vignetting on the M9

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/102760-18mm-m9.html#post1083412

[erl]

Snipped

 

IMHO, the M9 is a stop-gap camera, destined to play a keeping-the-company-in-business role before it's replaced with the camera they should have developed all along.

 

Quite possibly so Mark, but then wasn't the M8 a stop gap camera as well? In fact isn't every camera these days a 'stop gap' camera to the next one, already in development? P&S's being the supreme example.

 

The 'off centre' theory re the sensor sounds realistic. I actually thought they would rotate the battery obliquely to present a slightly smaller 'length' to gain the 'real estate' for the sensor. Given time, the actual solution will 'out.'

[rebelfocus]

 

IMHO, the M9 is a stop-gap camera, destined to play a keeping-the-company-in-business role before it's replaced with the camera they should have developed all along.

 

Most digital technology is stop-gap on the way to the next product.

 

For a "stop-gap" camera, it's a joy to use and produces exceptional photographs. It's a very worthy successor to the M8 and will do the job nicely until the next iteration in a few years.

 

Like many others, I too am a bit curious about how they managed to engineer this solution; looking forward to your anatomical analysis Mark :-)

[Overgaard]

Most digital technology is stop-gap on the way to the next product.

 

For a "stop-gap" camera, it's a joy to use and produces exceptional photographs. It's a very worthy successor to the M8 and will do the job nicely until the next iteration in a few years.

 

Like many others, I too am a bit curious about how they managed to engineer this solution; looking forward to your anatomical analysis Mark :-)

 

In fact, it works so well one can concentrate on building a lens lineup and use the existing camera. If and when an M10 comes about it would be natural to upgrade the camera, and the lenses need no change for the next many many years.

[novice9]

What was the flaw with the M8, did they make a hardware adjustment and I assume it was offered for free to early adopters? Or was it just the confusion around the IR filter issue, etc?

 

As an M9 owner I have only a few nits with the camera:

 

- for this kind of coin the screen should be significantly higher quality, its actually a pita to read the histograms, dont' know if that's a function of the resolution or poor firmware;

- they should have stuffed significantly more mb or ram into the computer so that you can take at least a dozen shots on continuous. Though i rarely use the camera this way, memory is so cheap there is absolutely no excuse for skimping on the ram the way they seemingly have

 

Other these criticisms, the camera is perfect in my eyes. Certainly, i am not as critical as many of you probably bc i only have a few lenses and the camera less than a week, but its pretty damn great imo.

 

Given these observations, i hope the camera does have a minor flaw that yields me a 30% certificate! Would love to puchase a 20/1.4!

[Mauribix]

Joking aside, I'm still waiting to hear why the 18mm Super-Elmar gives the red left edge to the image. It's great that CornerFix can handle it but Sandy's tests show a clear asymmetry to the sensor performance.

 

Mark, as an M9 owner, I can assert that the problem is there with 28 and 21mm lens (maybe with 35mm too?).

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[Guest BigSplash]

I would be very surprised if a hardware related issue surfaced for M9 at this point ...If there was an issue I guess that they would NOT be recruiting an army of technicians to clear the delinquent backlog at Solms, and engaging two shifts.

 

They have made it seems a significant quantity of M9 already and have shipped these. The factory would have had feedback since a few weeks about any reliability issues, and I am sure we would have seen many postings here about a common defect. There have been no reports of any hardware problem that I have seen.

 

Frankly I think suggesting a potential hardware issue is pretty irresponsible and damaging to Leica as they try to get their business on a sound business footing. I hope unless there is something concrete to report that people do not add to the malicious speculation and rumours.

 

It is however heart warming, and I feel vindicated to see some people now suggesting that M9 is a stop gap camera .... These same people attacked me for stating that I planned to wait until the M10 arrives (10/10/10). I seem to remember being told that M9 is the end of the line and that Stefan had said so in the video (which he did not by the way!).

 

I actually do not believe that the M9 is in anyway a stop gap camera. It is a technological marvel that is the best that can be done at the present time. I see it as setting a new level from which Leica will jump even higher as they develop it further with the latest technology of 2009 / 2010 timeframe. (New sensor? Fujitsu Maestro chipset? Better Profiles and post production software..Adobe L3 for example? Firmware to fix known problems?)