Leica Newsletter - Upgrade revamped

[stunsworth]

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By Leica's own admission, the new firmware does NOTHING to help the AWB. Like the SDHC support, Leica has no clue how to fix the AWB without a hardware fix.

 

Really? Nothing at all? To quote from the supporting notes for the latest firmware upgrade describing the issues addresed...

 

"New and considerably improved algorithms for the automatic white balance (AWB) for

true-to-life colors in almost all lighting conditions."

 

Full details here...

 

Leica Camera AG - Photography - M8

 

Click on 'updates' and then select 'Instruction firmware update' from the pop up window.

 

We all make mistakes, so don't worry about it.

[Venkman]

I have 2 M8's (unfortunately) and 9 lenses. with the current firmware. The AWB is STILL terrible. By Leica's own admission, the new firmware does NOTHING to help the AWB. Like the SDHC support, Leica has no clue how to fix the AWB without a hardware fix.

 

Uhhh...right. I must have been dreaming then.

 

Or you might need to get into 2008...

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The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[mjh]

The AWB is STILL terrible.

So far, I think everyone here reported different results with the new firmware.

 

By Leica's own admission, the new firmware does NOTHING to help the AWB.

That’s just plain wrong. According to Leica:

 

Firmware version 1.201 - The update adds these improvements to your camera:

– New and considerably improved algorithms for the automatic white balance (AWB) for true-to-life colors in almost all lighting conditions.

(...)

Many owners of an M8 have confirmed this.

[Guest guy_mancuso]

I have 2 M8's (unfortunately) and 9 lenses. with the current firmware. The AWB is STILL terrible. By Leica's own admission, the new firmware does NOTHING to help the AWB. Like the SDHC support, Leica has no clue how to fix the AWB without a hardware fix.

 

Not the case . I beta tested the new firmware and the improvement is vastly better than previous versions. This was all done via firmware . You should have 1.21 loaded up and you will see a much improved AWB.

 

SDHC is a different task altogether and we are still waiting on support of that. Not soon enough i might add. We do need this, normal cards will get harder to come by.

[nielsb]

I have 2 M8's (unfortunately) and 9 lenses. with the current firmware. The AWB is STILL terrible. By Leica's own admission, the new firmware does NOTHING to help the AWB. Like the SDHC support, Leica has no clue how to fix the AWB without a hardware fix.

It'd be very interesting to see a link to that admission from Leica regarding the firmware and AWB. Especially since Leica in one of thw "blurbs" for the new firmware mentioned AWB improvements, and since quite a few users on the forum has reported much better AWB with the new firmware. So, a link - or something - would be nice.

 

Niels

[marknorton]

I certainly agree AWB has improved hugely, as has the use of the SF-24D in GNC mode.

[JHAG]

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Sapphire glass don't scratch, but it breaks…

[bayerische]

Sapphire glass don't scratch, but it breaks…

 

Yes, but I think the M8 as a whole is busted when this happens.

[bayerische]

I think "bsmith" got punkd when he bought his M8's.

[Guest Cordell]

I have 2 M8's (unfortunately) and 9 lenses. with the current firmware. The AWB is STILL terrible. By Leica's own admission, the new firmware does NOTHING to help the AWB. Like the SDHC support, Leica has no clue how to fix the AWB without a hardware fix.

 

I agree with most of what you said in your initial post, but I disagree about the AWB. As of the latest firmware it is no worse than every other digital camera out there.

[JHAG]

Yes, but I think the M8 as a whole is busted when this happens.

 

I'm not sure : a straight shock on the glass may break it.

If anything, I would update only the shutter — 800 € + 1 year

more warranty seems a good deal.

For the display,

the Zagg Shield suits me well.

[rosuna]

I'm still trying to find the paragraph that FORCES any M8 owner to submit to these upgrades unwillingly. If you don't want to pay the money you are free to move on.

 

If your point is that you WANT the upgrade but don't want to actually PAY for it - cry me a river. I'd love a Dom Perignon for $10 a bottle and a 28 f/2 ASPH for $1500 - but so what? I don't get on the Web and whine about it.

 

The shutter exchange now costs 33% less than it did under the old program - which makes it a real possibility for me.

 

The deal with the warranty is straightforward - if Leica cuts open your M8 for major elective surgery, they will warranty that surgery for a year, regardless of the state of your warranty before the surgery. It is a reduction from the original offer of 1 year - in length of warranty and in price.

 

You have explained it very well, adan. This revision of the program is very flexible. Mark has presented (page 1) an estimation of separated costs (pieces/logistic/work/guarantee) and it seems very reasonable.

 

(I find the AWB much improved. Of course, it is not perfect. All cameras could fail on difficult lighting. But it is as good as any other camera I used. I prefer DNG files for ex-post fine tuning, if needed. Just like any other camera).

[danyves]

AWB quite improved with 1.201. Cope with most complex case, even when mixing different sources of light, ie natural and artficial.

[wlaidlaw]

So far, I think everyone here reported different results with the new firmware.

 

 

That’s just plain wrong. According to Leica:

 

 

Many owners of an M8 have confirmed this.

 

For the first time after the initial 2 weeks with my M8 in January 2007, I am now using AWB about 75+% of the time. I think it is much improved. The new firmware arrived at midnight when I was leaving for the Caribbean at 6AM the next morning. I am delighted that I decided to install it. I took about 800 images over the 18 days and only about 20 to 30 needed WB tweaking in C1 4 during conversion. It also seems to be getting greens more accurately but that may be down to changing from a CZ 35 Biogon with B+W 486 to a 35 ASPH Summilux with Leica IR/UV as my "standard" lens.

 

Wilson

[dcoombs]

I agree with you, Wilson. I had been struggling with shots which combined tungsten and daylight on a renovation project during the last 8 weeks. Before the 1.201 update I was bracketing different temperatures (which is a real pain). With the update, I found the camera much more reliable in capturing color despite the mix of light sources. I have much more confidence leaving it on AWB now.

 

Doug

[bsmith]

It's obvious many forum members embrace any opportunity to spend money with "LEICA".

Upgrades for them are a welcome opportunity to "buy something else from Leica". No different than buying the latest model lens, even though you have 6 others of the same focal length. Sadly, that addiction is why Leica is able to deliver sub par products for the rest of us.

As a loooong time Leica user (2 M3's, 2 M6's,1 M7 9 lenses, 2 M8's) , I was willing to wait while the M8's mistakes were rectified. After 18 months, I'm really tired of this crap.

When I spent $10,000 for 2 "Leica" digital bodies, I really thought I was getting a quiet, and low vibration 'Leica" quality shutter. That's one of the reasons I spent $10,000 with Leica. I wrongly assumed that the M8 quality would be comparable to past Leica rangefinder cameras. In the last year and a half we have all found out (too numerous to list) flaws in the camera and image quality that we Leica users had been accustomed to receiving. I'm insulted that Leica now suggest I spend $1200 for the quality of shutter I assumed I had already bought. (I assumed this because I received that quality for the past 20 years. (with film Leicas)

Now shutters, LCD glass, accurate frame lines, etc, etc will all come at an additional charge. I just wish they had told me that my $10,000 was only buying 2 "cheapie" low end models, and not the M6/M7 "digital equivalent" I naively thought I bought.

I really don't think the 10mp M8 is worth $10,000 or $15,000 by the time it's "fully" upgraded.

I "played along" for a year and a half, but I'm done. This is a game for the "collectors", I want to spend my hard earned money and make pictures with cameras that work now.

Back to my IIDs. or film with M's.

[pascal_meheut]

And you spent 10000$ without knowing what you were buying despite the many reviews.

And now that you are disappointed because you are clearly not able to read 5 min before spending your money, you'll feel the need to blame someone else.

 

BTW, if you're done with the M8, why still spending time here ? It is not as if somebody was asking for you to stay.

[Guest Cordell]

It's obvious many forum members embrace any opportunity to spend money with "LEICA".

Upgrades for them are a welcome opportunity to "buy something else from Leica". No different than buying the latest model lens, even though you have 6 others of the same focal length. Sadly, that addiction is why Leica is able to deliver sub par products for the rest of us.

As a loooong time Leica user (2 M3's, 2 M6's,1 M7 9 lenses, 2 M8's) , I was willing to wait while the M8's mistakes were rectified. After 18 months, I'm really tired of this crap.

When I spent $10,000 for 2 "Leica" digital bodies, I really thought I was getting a quiet, and low vibration 'Leica" quality shutter. That's one of the reasons I spent $10,000 with Leica. I wrongly assumed that the M8 quality would be comparable to past Leica rangefinder cameras. In the last year and a half we have all found out (too numerous to list) flaws in the camera and image quality that we Leica users had been accustomed to receiving. I'm insulted that Leica now suggest I spend $1200 for the quality of shutter I assumed I had already bought. (I assumed this because I received that quality for the past 20 years. (with film Leicas)

Now shutters, LCD glass, accurate frame lines, etc, etc will all come at an additional charge. I just wish they had told me that my $10,000 was only buying 2 "cheapie" low end models, and not the M6/M7 "digital equivalent" I naively thought I bought.

I really don't think the 10mp M8 is worth $10,000 or $15,000 by the time it's "fully" upgraded.

I "played along" for a year and a half, but I'm done. This is a game for the "collectors", I want to spend my hard earned money and make pictures with cameras that work now.

Back to my IIDs. or film with M's.

 

 

ROTFL! OK, how do I frame the above, or bookmark it, for when the next time some clown calls me a Leica-bashing troll?

[Guest Robert Belasario]

... The shutter upgrade (if you can call it that) is just the exchange of a spring, thats it, spring out, other spring in, upgrade of firmware .... bang the buck.

 

Makes an 750€ glass cover exchange seem reasonable ...... whahahahahahaha

 

I know I'm pulling this into ridicule .... but come on.... there as at least a bit of ridicule in all this or am I totally wrong.....

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[bsmith]

You ought to try the latest firmware - I'm assuming you actually own an M8, it's difficult to tell - it's hugely improved the AWB compared to the previous version.

 

Have tried it

 

Quite frankly anyone shooting Jpegs with a high quality camera, be it Canon, Leica or Nikon, is throwing aware a lot of the potential of the camera. Of course there are exceptions, PJs for example who need to get their images back to base ASAP, but anyone who's buying a camera for it's superior image qualities ought to be shooting RAW IMHO.

 

Please don't lecture me on jpgs/raw. As a full time photographer for almost 40 years, and Photoshop user since 1988 (before Adobe bought it) I am well aware of any advantage of raw. I am also aware that the great majority of clients don't want 500 30mb tiff files delivered on 16 CDs. I know when to shoot jpg and when to shoot RAW, trust me..... A busy photographer makes more money in one month shooting and delivering jpgs than the "hobbyist" and "collectors do with their "RAW" files in their lifetime ! One (of the many) reasons the M8 is not commonly used in the PJ and the commercial world is because Leica M8 JPGS are complete crap. Pixel peeping raw/ jpg files at on screen 200% is not how I make a living. Sometime look at Mk II Ds jpgs.