Guest Cordell Posted February 29, 2008 Share #21 Posted February 29, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Many, maybe most, M8 owners have no on-the-ground Leica dealers in their area. So the gesture struck me completely contrary to your suggestion; they are now cutting dealers IN on the action. I never said they were now cutting dealers out. It should be clear to anyone who wasn't born yesterday that dealers aren't going to middleman the upgrade without being compensated monetarily. So there's there's room for a dealer to decide to charge less than MSRP, i.e. to take a hit on his per-upgrade comp in order to sell them in more volume. And whether or not they choose to, Leica could cut the entire middleman amount out and lower the price of the upgrade to us directly. All in all, it's another example of Leica not thinking the P.R. issues through thoroughly. This entire revamping sounds like a knee-jerk reaction to Lee's firing. Someone(s) at Leica seems to feel the need to put their own stamp on Lee's program, to show the world that Lee was wrong and they know better. But what they've shown IMO is just the opposite. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 29, 2008 Posted February 29, 2008 Hi Guest Cordell, Take a look here Leica Newsletter - Upgrade revamped. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
delander † Posted February 29, 2008 Share #22 Posted February 29, 2008 To me this seems a worthwhile clarification and improvement, but there is still a load of moaning going on here? Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pascal_meheut Posted February 29, 2008 Share #23 Posted February 29, 2008 The information is also on the Web site : Leica Camera AG - Service - m8upgrade BTW, I regret the 1 year warranty only but I'm glad to pay at delivery and not months before as well as being able to change the shutter only. I do agree that the P.R could be better to say the least. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wparsonsgisnet Posted February 29, 2008 Share #24 Posted February 29, 2008 The new policy (offer?), as reflected in the email that I received today (Boston), is of less value to me. I liked both (1) the 2-year warranty, and (2) the clear statement that it would apply when the upgrade work occurred. It may be implied in the email reference to the original offer, but it is not clear if the warranty will apply to a camera that is out of warranty. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhoersch Posted February 29, 2008 Share #25 Posted February 29, 2008 The new policy (offer?), as reflected in the email that I received today (Boston), is of less value to me. I liked both (1) the 2-year warranty, and (2) the clear statement that it would apply when the upgrade work occurred. It may be implied in the email reference to the original offer, but it is not clear if the warranty will apply to a camera that is out of warranty. Same here. Perhaps we should ask Guy Mancuso again? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cordell Posted February 29, 2008 Share #26 Posted February 29, 2008 To me this seems a worthwhile clarification and improvement, but there is still a load of moaning going on here? Jeff Maybe because the majority of people can see very clearly that it is not an improvement--either for the customer (downgrading of the warranty, shifting of the service procedure to local Leica agencies not known for their expertise) or for Leica (less incentive for people to upgrade who aren't totally sold on the need for a new shutter, and option for those who are to forego the LCD) and that pointing out the clarity of that fact is not "moaning" even if you want to characterize it as such. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveB Posted February 29, 2008 Share #27 Posted February 29, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) I'm generally happy with my M8 and haven't thought too much yet about the upgrade and whether or when I would take advantage of it. All of this though seems to read though like a marketing case study from business school, How a firm makes mistakes, or realizes successes, how a company treats its customer base and network of dealers, etc. Sometimes Leica reminds me of Johnson & Johnson who 25 years ago handled the Tylenol poisoning incident in such a manner as to turn it to their advantage both by increasing sales and burnishing their image as a responsible corporation. On the other hand, I'm sometimes left thinking more of the Exxon Valdez and Bhopal. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted February 29, 2008 Share #28 Posted February 29, 2008 Maybe because the majority of people can see very clearly that it is not an improvement... I seem to remember a number of people who wanted the shutter improvement but weren't interested in the replacement glass. I would have thought for them it _is_ an improvement. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cordell Posted February 29, 2008 Share #29 Posted February 29, 2008 I seem to remember a number of people who wanted the shutter improvement but weren't interested in the replacement glass. I would have thought for them it _is_ an improvement. That assumes they can't comprehend, or don't care, that the 320-EUR they are saving by not having the screen replaced is now offset by a halving of the extended warranty period. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecaton Posted February 29, 2008 Share #30 Posted February 29, 2008 The upgrade has been revamped: in short: - upgrades are available as single options - no downpayment/certificates needed Prices: from 1120,- EUR Shutter and Sapphire glass from 750,- EUR Sapphire glass solo from 800,- EUR Shutter solo [update] Just ONE additional year of warranty, prices include VAT and may vary because of regional influences. Will be carried out in Germany as well as in auhtoirzed service centers around the world (USA, Japan, Hong Kong and Korea). Order for the upgrade can be placed through vendors as well. Dirk Pices for upgradings carried out at Leica USA, should be no higher than 100/119 of abovelisted ones (excluding 19% German VAT). Whether lower US labour costs will result in even more customer friendly pricing for NJ upgrades needs to be seen. At least there is some good news. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted February 29, 2008 Share #31 Posted February 29, 2008 ... Due to numerous suggestions you made we have revised the concept. ... Aren't we in danger of missing a very important point here?? I vividly remember a number of disgruntled posters who repeatedy stated that Leica doesn't care about its customers or listen to their opinions. Quite clearly that was incorrect, which sounds like very good news to me. Pete. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted February 29, 2008 Share #32 Posted February 29, 2008 I like the idea that the upgrade program will start in August, just as most of Europe is on holiday and business shutdown. In addition, having taken you to the cleaners, Leica will also allow you to pay more than the prices listed to take advantage of the express service and jump to the head of the queue. For me, the upgrade offers little because it does not address the principal concerns I have with it (focussing and full frame). It will be interesting to see whether Leica eventually uses some commonsense and offers new pre-upgraded cameras. Presumably, the logistics charge wouldn't apply and the parts cost could be less because there would be no parts being replaced. €250 for the quiet shutter option? Check, €150 for the sapphire glass option? Check. [€2500 for the FF sensor upgrade? Check. €1500 for the electronic focussing module? Check. Sorry, must have been dreaming.] Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrizzlie Posted February 29, 2008 Share #33 Posted February 29, 2008 Cordell, you may or may have not read what I wrote here The warranty - across the population of M8s out there - is *not* cut in half. It rather was specified in a more straightforward way. At any rate I don't understand the aggravation - Leica is on the way to build a modular system which, in my humble opinion, is outright fantastic as it extends the lifespan of a digital camera potentially far beyond what you can get elsewhere. Currently they offer just two modifications that you can even combine if you wish. The original upgrade offer left a lot of room for speculation. And while there still may be valid questions (such as: what happens to out of warranty cams?) the new approach is much clearer. For that matter I can't see a PR desaster - on the contrary! Leica has clarified a confusing communication, clearly demonstrating that they have been listening to the market. Whether or not anyone buys into these particular upgrades is a different question of tastes and needs. And by the way: you may still have the cam CLA'd without upgrade and buy a warranty from the various insurers in the market. Not sure where you would end up price-wise, but you could. Christian Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
skimmel Posted February 29, 2008 Share #34 Posted February 29, 2008 I wonder if they will charge dealers less for the upgrade than direct-to-customers prices so that dealers can make some profit if they send customer's cameras in for them (at the same cost to the customer)? On the other hand, I for one would be willing to spend a bit more to have my dealer send in (not that I am at all sure I'll want an upgrade!) as they have very good relations with Leica and I trust them to make sure it gets shipped safely and tracked through the process. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
george_b Posted February 29, 2008 Share #35 Posted February 29, 2008 Just recieved my email from Leica Leica Camera AG - Service - m8upgrade so now I have a quandry, either, both or none of the updates. I would like a cosy feeling that the M8 is going to be around for a while before I pour money into it. I can always use the glass on my M6 but what about the M8 body? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bayerische Posted February 29, 2008 Share #36 Posted February 29, 2008 I would choose the glass over the shutter. But that's just me. Sapphire glas would add a bit of exclusivity. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankg Posted February 29, 2008 Share #37 Posted February 29, 2008 It says VAT included. What about US prices would we minus VAT? How much is VAT? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cordell Posted February 29, 2008 Share #38 Posted February 29, 2008 The warranty - across the population of M8s out there - is *not* cut in half. It rather was specified in a more straightforward way. Gee I don't know how to make you see you are totally wrong. Let me try some examples. Say I bought my M8 in November '06, meaning the factory warranty expires in Nov. '08. If I do my upgrade in August '08 under the "old" program, I would have my warranty extended until August of '10. Under the "new" program, it will run until August of '09, a full year shorter. Lets say I bought my M8 in May of '07. The factory warranty expires in May of '09. If I get the upgrade done in August '08 under the "old" program, I would have my warranty extended until August of '10. Under the "'new" program, it would run until August of '09, a full year shorter. Now, I will grant you that if someone buys an M8 in August of '08 and immediately gets the upgrade, it won't matter at all because the 2-year factory warranty will over-run either a 2 or 1 year extended warranty. But that only underscores the value-subtracted of anyone having their upgrade done while they have remaining factory warranty on their M8. But with the "old" program, if someone had the upgrade done while one year remained on their factory warranty, they would get one full year of extended benefit. Under the "new" program they would get none. 2 is still twice as long as 1. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecaton Posted February 29, 2008 Share #39 Posted February 29, 2008 see my post #30 (German VAT is 19%). Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cordell Posted February 29, 2008 Share #40 Posted February 29, 2008 I wonder if they will charge dealers less for the upgrade than direct-to-customers prices so that dealers can make some profit if they send customer's cameras in for them (at the same cost to the customer)? That's what I said about twenty posts back. On the other hand, I for one would be willing to spend a bit more to have my dealer send in Sheesh, some of you people amaze me. I would hope and expect that dealers, who I'm sure have more business sense than Leica at least at the moment, would discount the upgrade cost, that is, sacrifice some of their per-unit profit to score on volume. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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