Highest Resolving 28mm & 35mm Lens

[dpitt]

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3 hours ago, JTLeica said:

Is the 28 Elmarit APSH the same one that released in 2006? ish? Or is there a new one now?

I am torn between 28 and 35... But I will work that one out.

The lens I was talking about was a MKI.
There seems to be a MKII since 2016. Maybe that is improved although I would not know what to improve about the MKI. It was and is still one of the smallest M lenses. And in every aspect of IQ, sharpness, contrast, distortion, color, 3D rendering it was almost perfect. Maybe an APO version would bring something extra, but I doubt it would be possible to keep it this small if you want to meet Leica's APO requirements.

As said, 28 and 35 feel very different to me in almost every aspect. I am a 35-50 mm person, 40mm FL is my compromise if I do not know what will come on my path with a FF camera.
If I want to go wide, I get more creative with a 21mm than with a 28mm, but if I try to use a 28mm, I find that I crop a lot because somehow I am never close enough when taking the shot.
I rarely use hyperfocal or zone focus, but if this is what you like, then 28mm is almost a nobrainer IMO. It is so much easier because DOF is so much larger at 1-5m distance with 28mm.

[ktmrider2]

I don't really have any comments on the 28 since I don't use that focal length very much unless you count the Ricoh GR3 which has a 28 equivalent lens on its APSC sensor.  For 35mm, you called it correctly.  The 35f2.8 C-Biogon lives on my Leica.  It is small, sharp and images just pop.  I have a couple other 35's but the C-Biogon is my go to travel lens along with my 90f2.8 Elmarit M.  Don't think you will go wrong with whatever you decide.

 

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[RexGig0]

18 hours ago, JTLeica said:

Hi guys,

Help needed please. I have put together a really nice little M11 kit, but when I don't want to take my Q3 with me and just want a once camera setup, I want a 28 or 35 to fill the gap between the 21mm and 50 Apo Lanthar I have. I am not yet sure if it'll be 28 or 35, but for the 35 I think I would pick the Zeiss c Biogon 2.8... Only other razor sharp options are the 35 Apo Lanthar, Leica APO Cron is just too much.

Happy with Either Leica, Voigtlander or Zeiss and dont really care about the speed of the lens, but dont want a huge lens.

Anything you guys recommend?

Mostly being used in Landscape photography andI dont want to have to stop down to F8 to get sharp images

Cheers

You mentioned the Voigtlander 35 APO Lanthar, but also stated that you do not want “huge.” I have never seen a 35 APO Lanthar, but seem to remember that it is somewhat larger than the 50 APO Lanthar, which I do have. I actually like a lens to be large enough for me to firmly grip the lens barrel, with my left hand, while moving about, but that preference is not widely shared, among Leica M shooters. Anyone considering the APO Lanthar should consider its size and weight specifications.

I really like the Zeiss Distagon 35mm f/1.4 ZM, which is certainly a very sharp lens, with a relatively flat field, for its time, but Lloyd Chambers, whose site is only viewable to paid subscribers, has indicated that the 35 APO Lanthar has a flatter field (less field curvature) than the 35 Distagon. (Of course, the Distagon is known for being a quite large lens, by M-mount standards.)

[junix]

18 hours ago, Al Brown said:

There is the 28/2 Ultron II in VOigtlander camp. Awesome but plain.

This! Sharper than the Summicron’s I tried, but really “plain” if one might say so I didn’t bond with it.. but I think this lens might work well for landscape photos. Also extremely competitive pricing in the Leica universe.

[M11 for me]

vor 16 Stunden schrieb JTLeica:

A quick question...

The Typ I and Typ II are essentially the same lens right? just the external design is different? Just a matter of preference?

https://www.robertwhite.co.uk/optics/lens-mounts/leica-m/voigtlander-28mm-f1-5-vm-nokton-vintage-line-asph-type-i-lens-silver.html

https://www.robertwhite.co.uk/optics/lens-mounts/leica-m/voigtlander-28mm-f1-5-vm-nokton-vintage-line-asph-type-ii-lens-black.html

Both are the same optical design.

Type I: Aluminium plus "strait" outside design

Type II: Brass and quite a bit heavier and different outside design.

[JTLeica]

13 hours ago, dpitt said:

The lens I was talking about was a MKI.
There seems to be a MKII since 2016. Maybe that is improved although I would not know what to improve about the MKI. It was and is still one of the smallest M lenses. And in every aspect of IQ, sharpness, contrast, distortion, color, 3D rendering it was almost perfect. Maybe an APO version would bring something extra, but I doubt it would be possible to keep it this small if you want to meet Leica's APO requirements.

As said, 28 and 35 feel very different to me in almost every aspect. I am a 35-50 mm person, 40mm FL is my compromise if I do not know what will come on my path with a FF camera.
If I want to go wide, I get more creative with a 21mm than with a 28mm, but if I try to use a 28mm, I find that I crop a lot because somehow I am never close enough when taking the shot.
I rarely use hyperfocal or zone focus, but if this is what you like, then 28mm is almost a nobrainer IMO. It is so much easier because DOF is so much larger at 1-5m distance with 28mm.

Thanks for your input here, I think I have ruled out the 28mm's, I have the Q, I have the 21mm SE... I dont have a 35 at all and I think I will go that route.

21, 35 and 90 is a nice kit too, or 21, 50, 90 which I have now... 21 and 28 whilst not similar, are not miles apart, 28mm being 33% narrower, and 50mm being 43% narrower than 35... So possibly 35 is better purely as it fills the gap better.

If I didnt have the Q3 I think the 28mm 1.5 Nokton would be in my basket too, looks incredibly good.

[LeicaR10]

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JTLeica,   I see you have a number of well meaning photographers who offer their sage advice to include myself.  That said, your intended use is landscape photography.  I most highly recommend you consider a Leica 28mm Elmarit.  It resolves at an excellent level across the frame, color is superb and renders superbly.  It is also 6 bit coded for your M11.  It is a stellar lens for landscapes.  If you needed a bit more speed, the latest version of the 28 Summicron is most excellent too.  The good news you have choices that in the end only you and your wallet can decide what is best for you.  In the meantime, here are several links that will give you a really good idea how the different Leica 28mm lenses render.  r/ Mark

Try:  28 Elmarit Asph:  https://onfotolife.com/lens_sample_photos?lens_id=345&page=1&focal_min=0&focal_max=800&aperture_min=0&aperture_max=32

Try:  28 Summicron Asph:  https://onfotolife.com/lens_sample_photos?lens_id=347&page=1&focal_min=0&focal_max=800&aperture_min=0&aperture_max=32

Try:  28 Summaron:  https://onfotolife.com/lens_sample_photos?lens_id=346&page=1&focal_min=0&focal_max=800&aperture_min=0&aperture_max=32

PS...The 28 Summaron is great for landscapes as well...just more choices for you.

[JTLeica]

2 hours ago, ktmrider2 said:

I don't really have any comments on the 28 since I don't use that focal length very much unless you count the Ricoh GR3 which has a 28 equivalent lens on its APSC sensor.  For 35mm, you called it correctly.  The 35f2.8 C-Biogon lives on my Leica.  It is small, sharp and images just pop.  I have a couple other 35's but the C-Biogon is my go to travel lens along with my 90f2.8 Elmarit M.  Don't think you will go wrong with whatever you decide.

 

Thanks very much! I have heard great things, annoying I can't find a black one around but might go with a silver one... In fact I might buy a few and compare and send back what I dont want.

[JTLeica]

3 hours ago, RexGig0 said:

You mentioned the Voigtlander 35 APO Lanthar, but also stated that you do not want “huge.” I have never seen a 35 APO Lanthar, but seem to remember that it is somewhat larger than the 50 APO Lanthar, which I do have. I actually like a lens to be large enough for me to firmly grip the lens barrel, with my left hand, while moving about, but that preference is not widely shared, among Leica M shooters. Anyone considering the APO Lanthar should consider its size and weight specifications.

I really like the Zeiss Distagon 35mm f/1.4 ZM, which is certainly a very sharp lens, with a relatively flat field, for its time, but Lloyd Chambers, whose site is only viewable to paid subscribers, has indicated that the 35 APO Lanthar has a flatter field (less field curvature) than the 35 Distagon. (Of course, the Distagon is known for being a quite large lens, by M-mount standards.)

Cheers Rex,

I have the 50 and dont find it large at all, my other system is a Nikon Z and everything is tiny compared to that, so maybe I should retract that comment about the size. There isnt really any huge M Lenses unless we are talking the Noct or F1 lenses.

Sensible choice would be the 35 APO wouldn't it? I have the 50, the 35 is probably the sharpest M 35 other than the APO Summicron and I wont be buying that anytime soon.

The APO Lanthar is smaller and lighter than the Distagon, slightly.

[RexGig0]

38 minutes ago, JTLeica said:

Cheers Rex,

I have the 50 and dont find it large at all, my other system is a Nikon Z and everything is tiny compared to that, so maybe I should retract that comment about the size. There isnt really any huge M Lenses unless we are talking the Noct or F1 lenses.

Sensible choice would be the 35 APO wouldn't it? I have the 50, the 35 is probably the sharpest M 35 other than the APO Summicron and I wont be buying that anytime soon.

The APO Lanthar is smaller and lighter than the Distagon, slightly.

I would think that anyone who likes the 50 APO Lanthar would probably like the 35 APO Lanthar. It seems to be a safe bet. 

Cheers!

[mradey]

On 2/6/2024 at 4:58 PM, JTLeica said:

This is getting somewhere I think...

Do you guys know much about the 35mm 1.5? Looks very similar...  I will have a little research of that too

I don't. This is my first venture 'off piste' with a non Leica lens.

I'm wondering what to do about the lens not being recognised by my digital bodies. A cursory glance at the M10 menu in the pub around the corner from Red Dot, didn't show a custom (i.e. allowing the user to enter) lens. Perhaps I should RTFM!

 

mradey

[horosu]

You can't go wrong with the C-Biogon. It offers the best small size and high resolution compromise on the market. The APO summicron resolves marginally higher, has a much more pleasing color rendition, lower macro contrast but higher micro contrast and it really the best on the market but it costs 10x more and is bigger and heavier. But for most applications, the resolution of the C-Biogon would be more than enough.

[250swb]

While a high resolution lens is a good thing if you are doing landscape photography almost anything is ‘good enough’ if we accept traditional norm that landscape requires stopping down to f/8, or f/11, or even f/16 should DOF be a concern. So an Elmarit is a great idea, given that you will rarely see further than half a mile before atmospheric distortion ruins any advantage possible with a multi thousand dollar lens.

[Jeff S]

Your M11 offers enough resolution that, in combination with a multitude of modern 35’s (having eliminated 28’s), you should have no problems with results, provided your technique is sufficient and you’re not pixel peeping or printing huge (and viewing very close).  I would choose  based on other factors, possibly including size/weight, handling and ergonomics, speed, or other rendering characteristics.

Jeff

[pgk]

13 hours ago, Jeff S said:

Your M11 offers enough resolution that, in combination with a multitude of modern 35’s (having eliminated 28’s), you should have no problems with results, provided your technique is sufficient and you’re not pixel peeping or printing huge (and viewing very close).  I would choose  based on other factors, possibly including size/weight, handling and ergonomics, speed, or other rendering characteristics.

Jeff

Absolutely. Trying to find the 'ultimate' high resolution lens will simply lead down a rabbit hole of things like optimum aperture, optimum focus distance and so on, will require a tripod and very careful technique , and more. Much better to accept that most new M lenses from Leica and other reputable makers will be very good and will deliver excellent results. Resolution as a goal in itself is relevant only when its relevant and in landscape photography there are innumerable other factors which go into creating a good photograph and ultimate resolution is way down the line in my experience.

[JTLeica]

35 minutes ago, pgk said:

Absolutely. Trying to find the 'ultimate' high resolution lens will simply lead down a rabbit hole of things like optimum aperture, optimum focus distance and so on, will require a tripod and very careful technique , and more. Much better to accept that most new M lenses from Leica and other reputable makers will be very good and will deliver excellent results. Resolution as a goal in itself is relevant only when its relevant and in landscape photography there are innumerable other factors which go into creating a good photograph and ultimate resolution is way down the line in my experience.

I would challenge that though. When I went out on Saturday with my M11 and 50 APO Lanthar, I was totally comfortable shooting at F2 as the light faded, with say the 50mm Summicron Pre-APO or 35 Ultron or many other lenses, 35mm F2 ZM Zeiss lens etc I would want to stop down to F4 to get sharp images across the frame. So stopping down just to get a sharp images really isnt optimal especially on a non stabilised camera. Also I am out in the evenings a lot too... Hence the question about sharp lenses without really needing to stop down

I think I have answered my own question here though... I will either buy the 35mm Zeiss F1.4 as it looks bitingly sharp at F2 or the 35m APO... Lanthar : ( not the Cron unfortunately.

Here are a couple from that trip with the 50 Lanthar. 

 

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Edited February 8 by JTLeica

[pgk]

2 hours ago, JTLeica said:

I would challenge that though.

You are welcome to do so. I have shot lanscapes at f/1.4 (very rarely) using the 35mm Summilux pre-FLE lens and achieved results I was happy with. However the lens was 'good enough' rather than being at the pinnacle of possible resolution (also I had to shoot handheld as the light was fading fast and it was bitterly cold). Would I have noticed the difference in using a 'better' lens? I very much doubt it, but then again, each to their own. It would be a more boring world if everyone shot the same way on the same lenses, that is for sure.

[JTLeica]

58 minutes ago, pgk said:

You are welcome to do so. I have shot lanscapes at f/1.4 (very rarely) using the 35mm Summilux pre-FLE lens and achieved results I was happy with. However the lens was 'good enough' rather than being at the pinnacle of possible resolution (also I had to shoot handheld as the light was fading fast and it was bitterly cold). Would I have noticed the difference in using a 'better' lens? I very much doubt it, but then again, each to their own. It would be a more boring world if everyone shot the same way on the same lenses, that is for sure.

Yes true there is something to be said for 'good enough' which often is lost.

I would like to try the Zeiss ZM 1.4 35mm, but need to work out if I want multiple brands... I guess that shouldn't matter

 

[JTLeica]

One interesting (well to me) thing I have discovered is that in my quest in opting for a 35 rather than a 28, as to fill the 'gap' better, some of the 35's have a much tighter FOV or Angle of View than others.

An example:

The VM APO Lanthar 35 is 63.6 Degrees

The Zeiss 35 F1.4 and F2.8 are both 62 Degrees

The Lux 35 FLE (2022) is 62.5

The New VM 35 Nokton is 61.7

As a Reference a 35mm should be 63.4 but most are considerably tighter.

Also the Voigt 50 APO I have is more or less the 'longest' or tightest 50 out of several so possibly the best bet for me is the 35 APO Voigt as its the largest 'gap' between 35 and 50's

Edited February 8 by JTLeica

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[JTLeica]

UPDATE:

Decision has been made after finding a new black 35mm F2.8 C Biogon in stock, hard to find seemingly in the UK.

£650 rather than the normal £770 which is great.

I looked at a few images of the 35mm APO Lanthar and possibly its just getting a little too large... F2.8 will do.

Cheers for all the input