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28mm Elmarit v2


blackdot

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I’ve been looking for a 28mm that has a rendering like an old 35 Summaron or early Summicron, or my Super Angulon 3.4. I have not an opportunity to try an old Elmarit other than the v4, which I found a little modern for my taste. How is the v2 relative to the lenses I mentioned? Similar or is there a closer option?

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Posted (edited)

Shooting with film, or with digital?

That can make a big difference - especially trying to compare it to the SA f/3.4

The 28mm Elmarit v.2 will be lower-contrast compared to the 28 v.4. That will give it an "older" rendering.

It has a significant fall-off in resolution towards the corners of the picture at f/2.8. Which only partly improves with stopping down - the extreme corners are still a bit smeary at any aperture.

Good "people" lens - not ideal for landscapes or architecture or other genres where maximum resolution across the whole frame may be desired.

Bottom line - In 1972 the v.2 was an "emergency fix" to work on the first M-mount cameras with internal metering arms - M5 and CL. And in addition, allow any ttl metering at all.

The existing v.1 28mm Elmarit when those cameras came out was like your SA f/3.4 - a rear element that almost touched the shutter when mounted. And thus would jam or break the M5/CL metering arms.

See 3rd picture here: https://asingulareye.wordpress.com/2016/05/13/leica-m5-fabulous-or-failure/

The v.2 fixed that by using a retrofocus design, like a smaller version of a 28 for an SLR, which has to keep clear of the camera's moving mirror. But it was Leica's first attempt at using retrofocus designs (themselves a relatively new invention) for M lenses, and thus imperfect.

All that being said - I used a 28 v.2 for a while on my M10. And it produced very nice tonality, even in harsh sunlight. Shots below are at around f/5.6-8.

In color shots, it tends towards warm yellow, like a built-in 81A filter. (Or at least this one did - after 50 years, could be age-related, or course).

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Edited by adan
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Posted (edited)

I'm not good at comparing different focal lengths but as far as my lenses are concerned, the 90/2.8 v2 has less vignetting and less color fringing than the S-A 21/3.4. But the former's IQ is indeed less "modern" than the 90/2.8 v4's w/o being soft, except at f/2.8 on corners where v2 is outperformed by v4. At f/4 and on, my v2 copy is very sharp, with less acutance than v4 i believe but i would have to do side by side comparos to be sure as the last time i used my v2 was a couple years ago... Happy snaps 🙂

Edited by lct
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1 hour ago, adan said:

Shooting with film, or with digital?

That can make a big difference - especially trying to compare it to the SA f/3.4

The 28mm Elmarit v.2 will be lower-contrast compared to the 28 v.4. That will give it an "older" rendering.

It has a significant fall-off in resolution towards the corners of the picture at f/2.8. Which only partly improves with stopping down - the extreme corners are still a bit smeary at any aperture.

Good "people" lens - not ideal for landscapes or architecture or other genres where maximum resolution across the whole frame may be desired.

Bottom line - In 1972 the v.2 was an "emergency fix" to work on the first M-mount cameras with internal metering arms - M5 and CL. And in addition, allow any ttl metering at all.

The existing v.1 28mm Elmarit when those cameras came out was like your SA f/3.4 - a rear element that almost touched the shutter when mounted. And thus would jam or break the M5/CL metering arms.

See 3rd picture here: https://asingulareye.wordpress.com/2016/05/13/leica-m5-fabulous-or-failure/

The v.2 fixed that by using a retrofocus design, like a smaller version of a 28 for an SLR, which has to keep clear of the camera's moving mirror. But it was Leica's first attempt at using retrofocus designs (themselves a relatively new invention) for M lenses, and thus imperfect.

All that being said - I used a 28 v.2 for a while on my M10. And it produced very nice tonality, even in harsh sunlight. Shots below are at around f/5.6-8.

In color shots, it tends towards warm yellow, like a built-in 81A filter. (Or at least this one did - after 50 years, could be age-related, or course).

 

Thank you! I should have mentioned that I am shooting film only, and this is intended just for black and white. I just developed some film shot with my SA, which I don’t shoot that often, and was reminded how much I love the look of that lens. Since 28 tends to be more practical for me, I was hoping the v2 would get me close to that feeling. Unfortunately the v1 is priced for collectors, but interestingly, the v2 seems to be selling for more than the v3 or even v4 where I live. It’s almost as much as the first asph version. 

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1 hour ago, lct said:

I'm not good at comparing different focal lengths but as far as my lenses are concerned, the 90/2.8 v2 has less vignetting and less color fringing than the S-A 21/3.4. But the former's IQ is indeed less "modern" than the 90/2.8 v4's w/o being soft, except at f/2.8 on corners where v2 is outperformed by v4. At f/4 and on, my v2 copy is very sharp, with less acutance than v4 i believe but i would have to do side by side comparos to be sure as the last time i used my v2 was a couple years ago... Happy snaps 🙂

We’re talking 28mm, not 90. But thank you anyway :).

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1 hour ago, lct said:

...My favorite from the same era is the Rokkor 28/2.8....

This might actually be the ideal lens for the OP.

Were I to be choosing a 28 to fit the same stipulations it would almost certainly be my #1 'check'. Like the OP I have an old (1954) 35mm Summaron and from what I have seen from photographs taken with the Rokkor they would match with those produced by the Summaron very well indeed.

It's also Very Small and Very Tiny; both attributes being BIG 'Ticks' from my point of view.

Philip.

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2 minutes ago, pippy said:

This might actually be the ideal lens for the OP.

Were I to be choosing a 28 to fit the same stipulations it would almost certainly be my #1 'check'. Like the OP I have an old (1954) 35mm Summaron and from what I have seen from photographs taken with the Rokkor they would match with those produced by the Summaron very well indeed.

It's also Very Small and Very Tiny; both attributes being BIG 'Ticks' from my point of view.

Philip.

I had one of those many years ago, but I don't remember whether I liked it or not ;). Finding one without the spots is getting much harder. 

Coincidentally, I already have a CLE and a 28mm/3.5 G-Rokkor (screw mount edition from the TC-1). Very cool lens, but more of a modern vibe.

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Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, pippy said:

This might actually be the ideal lens for the OP.

Were I to be choosing a 28 to fit the same stipulations it would almost certainly be my #1 'check'. Like the OP I have an old (1954) 35mm Summaron and from what I have seen from photographs taken with the Rokkor they would match with those produced by the Summaron very well indeed.

It's also Very Small and Very Tiny; both attributes being BIG 'Ticks' from my point of view.

Philip.

+1 The Rokkor 28/2.8 works fine with modern digital cameras too. Only issues are Schneideritis and 28mm framelines needing a mod of the flange to bring up. I've been fortunate enough to find a clean copy like that with 6-bit coding at a German dealer. IQ wise, it matches well Mandler lenses from the eighties (35/2 v4, 50/2 v4), more so than earlier ones i feel. Couple of snaps with M11 and FPL below. Not bad that Sigma look is it but possibly too sharp for the OP. EDIT: i should say the Sigma + LCT look as i sharpened a bit more the Sigma shot in PP.
https://photos.smugmug.com/Diverse/n-QFBj4/Leica-M11-Rokkor-2828/i-7HbWJsp/0/CGrhNTvxjsnvS734kRSZ7jHLpw3Qv3B88f6rCJqHX/X4/M1004048_sips-X4.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/Diverse/n-QFBj4/Sigma-FPL-Rokkor-2828/i-bnNDFHC/0/qw2FmddWcMbtNz6k7GSpFQ8tdn68NBSwNKDXZrGK/X4/SDIM0169_sips-X4.jpg

 

 

Edited by lct
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On 4/23/2024 at 10:31 PM, blackdot said:

Thank you! I should have mentioned that I am shooting film only, and this is intended just for black and white.

Just a short reminder that Delta 100 resolves about 18MP+ whereas Kentmere 400 (great budget film!) resolves half if anything. Good corner resolution would be important for me when shooting Delta 100.

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57 minutes ago, hansvons said:

Just a short reminder that Delta 100 resolves about 18MP+ whereas Kentmere 400 (great budget film!) resolves half if anything. Good corner resolution would be important for me when shooting Delta 100.

Thanks. I tend to shoot fast film in Rodinal, shaken not stirred. :)  So I'm not too concerned about resolution. Just looking for the mood. I've got a 28mm Summicron if I ever want to cut myself on the details.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Posted (edited)

I ended up buying both an Elmarit v3 and a shockingly clean Canon 28/2.8 for less money than a clean v2. The first rolls look good so far - that Canon is impressive and so damn small (and came with the dedicated filter, which lies flat against the front). The v3 is big, but super light, so I don’t mind. Pretty modern rendering, but not too harsh.

Edited by blackdot
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Posted (edited)

+1 for the Rokkor. I own the 28mm Minolta f2.8. A great lens if you do not mind working with the 35mm framelines. Sample pic below on an m9

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Edited by costa43
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On BW (M9M) the rokkor is incredibly nice:

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17 hours ago, blackdot said:

I ended up buying both an Elmarit v3 and a shockingly clean Canon 28/2.8 for less money than a clean v2. The first rolls look good so far - that Canon is impressive and so damn small (and came with the dedicated filter, which lies flat against the front). The v3 is big, but super light, so I don’t mind. Pretty modern rendering, but not too harsh.

Garry Winogrand would approve. He famously shot both of these lenses 👍

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