Regular M11 camera bodies discontinued?

[bilbrown]

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12 hours ago, DadDadDaddyo said:

Well, in some ways it's all about what the Brits call "Horses for courses", that is, knowing the characteristics of a tool and selecting from available tools what's needed for a particular task, based upon those characteristics. 

Have you ever, I mean, *ever* seen an M Series Leica on TV on the sidelines of a football or basketball game? No. What you see are Canons (discernable by their gigantic pale gray/beige stabilized lenses), or Nikons (for those diehards who won't be caught dead with a Canon). 

They're firing away at 15 fps in continuous subject-tracking auto-focus, flooding their buffers and cursing their batteries. 

How who would it work if I brought my M11 or M11M to the sidelines and tried to use it that way? First of all the subject-tracking auto-focus on the M series is simply *terrible, I mean, practically non-existant.

What's more, straying off of the practice of firing careful, single shots has proven, at times, to stress the M's composure. Heck, mine even froze a couple of times long ago in the old firmware when I switched it on and jammed my thumb onto the Play button before the body had finished booting up. I should return the thing!!!

So, I learned to modify my practices, to accommodate the characteristics, even weaknesses, of the body, to gain reliable access to its strengths. 

Not doing so is like taking a Harley Shovelhead onto a mountain trail and complaining that it isn't agile. 

Or complaining that your Lightning-class sloop simply stinks for water skiing. 

Or complaining that your mountain boots with crampons weren't great when you used them to run the Boston Marathon. 

I could go on. 

So, if I was *forced to take my M11 to the basketball game what would I do? I'd prefocus on the rim and time my shot for the correct single instant that the guy is stuffing the ball into the basket. I'd do so realizing that, even at 15 fps, the shutter is *closed for 885/1000 of that second.

No time for more examples right now, I have to go heat my dinner with my blowtorch and then hang my latest framed photo with my twelve pound sledge hammer.....

 

I would completely agree with you, if it were not for these facts:

I used the M8, M9, M9M, M240, M246, M10, M10R and my M10M the exact same way as I would this camera and besides the M8 IR issue (shot black and white mostly so who cares), the M9 corrosion issue (I never had it), card write speed errors on the M240, and battery life on the M10 variants, I never had consistent slow operation or freezes. The ONLY camera I had this was (shock) the S006, and that was a high resolution sensor as well. SO MAYBE the issue is hardware after all.

So, yes "Horses for courses." It's just relearning how this mustang runs.

 

 

[charlesphoto99]

23 minutes ago, bilbrown said:

 

I would completely agree with you, if it were not for these facts:

I used the M8, M9, M9M, M240, M246, M10, M10R and my M10M the exact same way as I would this camera and besides the M8 IR issue (shot black and white mostly so who cares), the M9 corrosion issue (I never had it), card write speed errors on the M240, and battery life on the M10 variants, I never had consistent slow operation or freezes. The ONLY camera I had this was (shock) the S006, and that was a high resolution sensor as well. SO MAYBE the issue is hardware after all.

So, yes "Horses for courses." It's just relearning how this mustang runs.

 

 

M9 and M9M - both had corrosion. M9 swapped for free, M9M at a cost. M9 had freezes. M8 - first new body had to be swapped for another straight out of the box (and they gave me a silver instead of black). M10-R black paint - just back from service because the back buttons stopped working. Out of the box new it had to go in for a rangefinder calibration. Don't even get me started on lousy NJ service on bodies and lenses, all the way back to the mid-nineties and my first M6.

It's the hardware (and/or the company ethos)...

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[bilbrown]

6 hours ago, charlesphoto99 said:

M9 and M9M - both had corrosion. M9 swapped for free, M9M at a cost. M9 had freezes. M8 - first new body had to be swapped for another straight out of the box (and they gave me a silver instead of black). M10-R black paint - just back from service because the back buttons stopped working. Out of the box new it had to go in for a rangefinder calibration. Don't even get me started on lousy NJ service on bodies and lenses, all the way back to the mid-nineties and my first M6.

It's the hardware (and/or the company ethos)...

 

 

For sure.

 

But I left Canon because the "amazing AF" just stopped working. I left Fuji because after 4 months my camera dropped two inches and the EVF turned upside down and green. My RICOH had its back wheel stop working alltogether. My Pentax 645z had a black screen issue. Also, all of these cameras do not retain any of their resale value after a year or so. MAYBE Fuji now because of hype or lust. but only Leica's End Of Life cycle maintains, and ONLY an M. The S pitifully went down from 26k or 18k to 2K body. The SL half of what I paid for it. My M7? It's back up to what I paid for it. My M-A? I can get more than I paid for it. My digital M's stay at about 2-7k used and some like the M8 are now vintage digital.

 

So I would say the company ethos is evidently attractive to a good many people that will pay a premium EVEN for a 7-10 year old digital Leica body. And really, any of those are simply a choice of digitized light box for the lenses that only depreciate about 10-12% and having the option of ANY M lens or screw mount lens from Leica (with adapter) is more than enough to accept the small caveats to owning a camera with the occasional frustration, that can likely be taken care of with a firmware update.

[lct]

2 hours ago, bilbrown said:

So I would say the company ethos is evidently attractive to a good many people that will pay a premium EVEN for a 7-10 year old digital Leica body. And really, any of those are simply a choice of digitized light box for the lenses that only depreciate about 10-12% and having the option of ANY M lens or screw mount lens from Leica (with adapter) is more than enough to accept the small caveats to owning a camera with the occasional frustration, that can likely be taken care of with a firmware update.

+1

[charlesphoto99]

5 hours ago, bilbrown said:

 

 

 

 

So I would say the company ethos is evidently attractive to a good many people that will pay a premium EVEN for a 7-10 year old digital Leica body. And really, any of those are simply a choice of digitized light box for the lenses that only depreciate about 10-12% and having the option of ANY M lens or screw mount lens from Leica (with adapter) is more than enough to accept the small caveats to owning a camera with the occasional frustration, that can likely be taken care of with a firmware update.

By company ethos I didn't mean their design and engineering, I meant their approach to service and quality control, and sometimes hubris towards doing what's right to correct that. 

[bilbrown]

4 hours ago, charlesphoto99 said:

By company ethos I didn't mean their design and engineering, I meant their approach to service and quality control, and sometimes hubris towards doing what's right to correct that. 

I would much rather the full timers taking care of my EQ even when I had to wait 6 months for my S to come back, in factory condition, than having to deal with Canon or Nikon "service centers" with tech guys right out of HS. 

 

But maybe that's just me.

 

As for QC. Remember, the M11 is a pandemic era camera build that was done MOSTLY remotely on the software side at least. I think there may be some catch-up. With that in mind, I can deal with a few flaws for a mostly solid camera when it comes down to what it is designed to do: take pictures.

 

However, I also reserve the right as we all do to get frustrated with my Leica family for having me have to deal with it until they work it out. I think we all agree with this point, what you call ethos, does need an upgrade. However, my wife used to work in luxury fashion and there were a number of times something would come with threads missing or frayed for a premium price. Maybe prioritizing these fixes and not just thinking of the label and its history is what we expressly want.

 

I look forward to the next firmware update is all I'm saying.

Edited November 15, 2023 by bilbrown
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[charlesphoto99]

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3 minutes ago, bilbrown said:

I would much rather the full timers taking care of my EQ even when I had to wait 6 months for my S to come back, in factory condition, than having to deal with Canon or Nikon "service centers" with tech guys right out of HS. 

 

But maybe that's just me.

You mean like the highly trained staff who coded my 28 as a 24 after waiting for three months? Perhaps they assigned the college interns to bayonet swaps.

 

No, I hear you, but perhaps there could be a middle ground...

[bilbrown]

11 minutes ago, charlesphoto99 said:

You mean like the highly trained staff who coded my 28 as a 24 after waiting for three months? Perhaps they assigned the college interns to bayonet swaps.

 

No, I hear you, but perhaps there could be a middle ground...

Oh ha, yeah. That's bizarre...

 

A middle ground would be nice. I have my own bizarre stories, as I'm sure we all do.

But we keep on truckin' as the saying goes...