If you had to choose today: Noctilux f1 vs Noctilux f1.2

[RexGig0]

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Having just re-read this discussion, I agree with DrM regarding swirly bokeh: nice for a limited number of images, but I would not want swirly bokeh in all or most of my 50mm images.

The Summilux-M 50mm ASPH had the look/character that compelled me to add the Leica M system, in early 2018. That Summilux look/character prompted me to add a pre-owned APO Summicron-M 75mm ASPH, in 2022, rather than acquire any version of pre-owned Noctilux. (Peter Karbe described, in at least two interviews, how he based the APO 75’s design on that of the Summilux-M ASPH.)

If I were to be blessed with unlimited funds, it would be nice to acquire at least one version of the Noctilux f/1, plus a Noctilux f/0.95, and, perhaps a re-issued classic f/1.2, in that order, but, realistically, post-2022, I struggle to spend more than $4K US for any single lens purchase, so, paying two to three times that much, for a niche-use-case lens is quite unlikely.

[High_n_Dry]

I was deciding between these 3 lenses. On the used market, they all are very close in price.

I ended up going with the 1.2 as I thought that I would likely not carry around a big 50mm on a M. I've been pleasantly surprised with the sharpness, color, and rendering of the lens. 

I never thought that I would use the Noctilux as an EDC, but it is quite sharp stepped down and pretty compact.

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[aires35iii]

On 9/27/2023 at 7:00 AM, John Black said:

The 50/1.2 is wonderfully sized and balances nicely with the M10 / M11 bodies.  Mine had a light focus action.  No built-in hood though and if dealing with light just outside of the frame, that hood is needed.  The 50/1.2 has a very small area of sharpness at F1.2 and that area doesn't really get big enough to use in most case until F2 or F2.8.  That said, I think the 50/1.2 has a really nice rendering at F2.8.  

The 50/1 is larger and their focus ring is generally stiffer.  It has the built-in hood which is handy vs toting around a clip on lens hood.  I think 50/1 is sharper wide open and does better F1.2, but at F1.4 my 50 Lux ASPH's are sharper.  If going for the wide-open look, my vote would be the 50 Lux ASPH (version I, not the new close focus one).  The 50 Lux ASPH is cheaper & easier to find too.

I never compared the 50/1 and 50/1.2 side by sides, can't really say much about that.  Some recent pix with the 50/1.2 with the Leica Monochroms & M11.

https://www.pebbleplace.com/gallery/rangefinder/leica_50mm_noctilux_f12.html

 

Mr Black, why do you prefer the 1st version of the Summilux ASPH ?

[aires35iii]

M Bear, unfortunately I didn't experienced the Noctilux 50/1. However, I am a lucky owner of the 1.2 re-issued, and also possess a Summilux-Asph V1. The latest always impress me by  producing stunning images. It never deceives. But I felt in love of the 50/1.2 from now 2 years. I was afraid to become annoyed of its special rendering after some time but for now it is ok. Even at 2.8 the Summilux is better in crispness but lacks a bit of chatacter for my taste. More importantly, this Summilux exhibits a warm tone that I don't like. Even with that, as a Leica, it is capable of unique transparency compared to its other brands competitors.

The Noctilux 50/1.2 is neutral and delivers wonderful colors which with its contrast and unique rendering may justify the investement (see the picture below). Besides I wouldn't say that it is not sharp. To me it is, but the images are like a superposition of a sharp on a blurred one, the second progressively vanishing with the apeture. It exhibists huge distortion.

I would choose the f/1.2 for film as sensitive to hi-contrast and the f/1 for digital since apparently old and low contrast are well-suited. Think also if you can bear the typical blurred effect of the 1.2. Being an amateur I am taking few pictures and each made with the 1.2 is a delight, but I may have been annoyed of it after some intensive use. This is a comment I read about a more "neutral" in its blur hi-speed lens, the famous Contax 645's 80/2 Planar.

(Medlars, Noctilux 50/1.2 Portra 160, f/2 perhaps ?)

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Edited December 27, 2023 by aires35iii

[patrickcolpron]

Noctilux 1.2 Reissue, it's a no brainer. 

It is lighter, I like its rendering at f/1.2 and it's great when using it to shoot black and white film or a digital M monochrom camera with a yellow filter. 

Plus I can't manage to get a sharp image with the f/1 Noctilux whereas I have less of an issue with the f/1.2 reissue. 

[John Black]

13 hours ago, aires35iii said:

Mr Black, why do you prefer the 1st version of the Summilux ASPH ?

Because it is sharp at the center at F1.4, has good off-center sharpness at F1.4, and very smooth bokeh.  Ergonomically, they are small with a built-in hood.  Financially, cheap as chips these days.  

The 50/1.2 re-issue had a nice draw / rendering at F2.8, but it seemed (to me) a very expensive way to shoot F2.8.  F2 had a sharp(ish) center.  F1.2 was really just more of "look".  Nothing was critically sharp, just some area was kind-of, sort-of, maybe more focused.    

[rustyrus]

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I would pick the 50 1.2 Everyday of the week- 

 

Its my favorite 50 I own- I owned the 50 f/1 v4 and absolutely hated that lens- The ergonomics just don't make it feasible FOR ME to carry around and use. The 50 1.2 is something I can leave on the camera for the whole day and just shoot with. 

 

I love the softness of it wide open and its plenty sharp stopped down. On monochrome and film, its really a beautiful aesthetic IMO- 

 

 

[aires35iii]

11 hours ago, John Black said:

Because it is sharp at the center at F1.4, has good off-center sharpness at F1.4, and very smooth bokeh.  Ergonomically, they are small with a built-in hood.  Financially, cheap as chips these days.  

The 50/1.2 re-issue had a nice draw / rendering at F2.8, but it seemed (to me) a very expensive way to shoot F2.8.  F2 had a sharp(ish) center.  F1.2 was really just more of "look".  Nothing was critically sharp, just some area was kind-of, sort-of, maybe more focused.    

Ok, but I meant : why not the new Summilux, instead of the 1st one ? What does the 1st version add regards to the 2nd ?

[rustyrus]

A few recent film shots with Noctilux wide open- Porta 800

 

 

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[aires35iii]

10 hours ago, rustyrus said:

A few recent film shots with Noctilux wide open- Porta 800

 

 

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Nice. I like the one with the book. What is this place ?

So this is the 50/1.2 re-issued, I guess ? Do you know the apeture used ?

Edited December 29, 2023 by aires35iii

[rustyrus]

5 hours ago, aires35iii said:

Nice. I like the one with the book. What is this place ?

So this is the 50/1.2 re-issued, I guess ? Do you know the apeture used ?

Both shots up top are wide open- 

 

Its the rare book room at Powells books in Portland, OR. Also here are a few more of the Noctilux 1.2 re-issue w/Leica M-A and Porta 800

 

Pic of my son below is also wide open. Again- I love the look the Noctilux gives mixed with the outstanding handling, its my clear choice over the Nocitlux f1. The lens is soft wide open, but its plenty sharp for the photography I do and bring it out for- Also I enjoy the look of soft pictures sometimes, its a nice change to the overblown definition that processing allows us to do today. Hope this helps anyone- 

 

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Edited December 29, 2023 by rustyrus

[John Black]

On 12/28/2023 at 2:02 PM, aires35iii said:

Ok, but I meant : why not the new

The 50/1.4 ASPH "II" has very poor off center performance at 1.4.