Upgrading from the M10-R to the M11? On the fence…

[petereprice]

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2 hours ago, cprotz said:

I recently upgraded from a M10M to an M11M and at the same time still have an M10R, on of the main confusing points when using both at the same day is the differences in menues and buttons. I meanwhile like the logic of the M11M better and always have to think twice on the M1OR 🙂 and I also wonder whether I want to upgrade and will probably do when I find a decent 2nd hand M11...

I totally agree with this point.  I currently have a Q2 Mono, Q3 and SL2-S in addition to my M10-R and I do get confused in the menu and button layout.  It's another reason I've been looking at the M11, to match better with my Q's and SL.

[costa43]

It won’t make a blind bit of difference to your images but for sure why not if it tickled your fancy and the budget is there. If the urge is not so pressing, I would hang on for the m11p which is supposedly due this year. 

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[FlashGordonPhotography]

I upgraded from the M10R to the M11 with zero regrets. I still have my M10R but don’t use it.

I think the advice to wait and see what happens with the M11P (or discounted M11’s) is sound.

Gordon

[otto.f]

17 hours ago, cprotz said:

 the differences in menues and buttons. I meanwhile like the logic of the M11M better and always have to think twice on the M1OR 🙂 and I also wonder whether I want to upgrade and will probably do when I find a decent 2nd hand M11...

I tried the M11 yesterday which I scorned a bit thus far because of the saturated colors, an issue which is waved away by important names like Sean Reid etc.. I do think the reduced weight can be a big advantage for me, so I wanted to feel that. To my surprise I did not find that the most striking advantage over the M10-R, but instead the much easier and direct access to menu items, a plus which I have not seen highlighted so much in reviews. Some people complain about the wake-up time, but I find the M11 actually working faster than the M10-R if you consider the whole process, including changing settings for specific situations or my intentions with a shot.

Coming home and analyzing the colors I cannot say that I easily step over the slight oversaturation in the M11 images vs. the nice neutral colors from the M10-R where I came addicted to. This does not justify for me a new camera, especially not where the 2nd hand prices of M10-R are going down quite rapidly at the moment.

Edited August 26, 2023 by otto.f

[Yihong]

I upgraded to M11 and sold my M10-R without any regret. I'm considering getting M11-P for backup and travelling purposes. 

The key reasons for upgrades are:

• I would like to use Noctilux without a filter, M10-R only do mechanical shutter  1/4000
• M11 supports three DNG sizes to enhance low-light performance, and the sensor is better
• My M10-R got freeze issue very often, I'm dying because of that. (M11 might also have but the one I'm using is quite good thx god!)
• Much better battery life and is chargeable while shooting, I need to take two batteries on M10-R and sometimes not even enough
• The Visoflex is upgraded on M11, good for Noctilux user
• Customisable buttons, easy and quick to use.

It depends on what you are looking for,  M11 got many good features compared to M10-R, I upgraded immediately when it was released. If you are Noctilux user also, highly recommended! 

[hdmesa]

5 hours ago, Yihong said:I

• …M11 supports three DNG sizes to enhance low-light performance…

It’s been tested and proven (Red Dot / Leica Miami folks) that the smaller DNG sizes from the M11 show no increase in dynamic range or reduction in noise relative to the full 60mp image sized down to the smaller dimensions later in Photoshop.

The only benefit to the smaller native DNG files is a smaller file size. The trade off is a slight slight loss in sharpness and resolving power relative to the full 60mp DNG sized down later in Photoshop using the bicubic sharper option.

Agree that the sensor overall is better. IMO, it’s much better than the M10-R. But to get the most out of the M11, shoot it at 60mp unless you need to save storage space and are ok with the smaller files as they are.

[Yihong]

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7 hours ago, hdmesa said:

The only benefit to the smaller native DNG files is a smaller file size. The trade off is a slight slight loss in sharpness and resolving power relative to the full 60mp DNG sized down later in Photoshop using the bicubic sharper option.

Thanks for pointing this out, It's not a good news but doesn't bother me. The low-light performance is much better than M10-R.

 

[petereprice]

4 hours ago, Yihong said:

Thanks for pointing this out, It's not a good news but doesn't bother me. The low-light performance is much better than M10-R.

 

I've heard the opposite in reviews of watched on YouTube.  I've heard that the M10-R has slightly better low light performance than than the M11.

[Kwesi]

I've used multiple cameras from each generation of digital M's with the exception of the M8 and I can unreservedly say that in terms of dynamic range and file malleability, the sensor in the M11 is head and shoulders above the rest.

[hdmesa]

1 hour ago, petereprice said:

I've heard the opposite in reviews of watched on YouTube.  I've heard that the M10-R has slightly better low light performance than than the M11.

M11 is about 1 stop better than the M10-R at high ISOs.

[cj3209]

On 8/23/2023 at 5:53 AM, WvE said:

Upgrading will of course not improve your photography, but if you decide to upgrade, I would in any event wait for the P.  

What would the M11p add?  More internal memory?  No Red Leica logo?  M11 shutter is already pretty quiet and I doubt Leica would add a retractable back LCD.

[hdmesa]

2 hours ago, cj3209 said:

What would the M11p add?  More internal memory?  No Red Leica logo?  M11 shutter is already pretty quiet and I doubt Leica would add a retractable back LCD.

+ Sapphire LCD screen. But the memory upgrade alone would make it worth waiting for since it’s nice to be able to use a 256gb card and have matching capacity internally.

[otto.f]

On 9/7/2023 at 5:36 PM, hdmesa said:

M11 is about 1 stop better than the M10-R at high ISOs.

At 60Mp that is. At the other two amounts it’s not that good

[hdmesa]

1 hour ago, otto.f said:

At 60Mp that is. At the other two amounts it’s not that good

I was speaking of equivalence: 60mp file sized down to 40. Without downsizing and comparing both at high magnification, M11 at high ISO is about the same as the M10-R.

As far as the M11 medium and small DNG, I have only ever tested them against the full 60mp M11 files at low ISOs where they are just slightly worse than the 60mp files sized down in Photoshop to the same dimensions. And by “slightly” I mean having to compare them at 300% magnification to see the differences. Not sure why that would be any different at higher ISOs. Is it?

Edited September 9, 2023 by hdmesa

[otto.f]

16 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

I was speaking of equivalence: 60mp file sized down to 40. Without downsizing and comparing both at high magnification, M11 at high ISO is about the same as the M10-R.

As far as the M11 medium and small DNG, I have only ever tested them against the full 60mp M11 files at low ISOs where they are just slightly worse than the 60mp files sized down in Photoshop to the same dimensions. And by “slightly” I mean having to compare them at 300% magnification to see the differences. Not sure why that would be any different at higher ISOs. Is it?

Read Reid 😊, he did the best tests there. But of course it seems common sense to me that you don’t use 18Mp in situations where you want high quality colors.

[hirohhhh]

On 8/25/2023 at 8:06 AM, jakontil said:

Usb c charging 🤪🤪🤪

i use the m10r in conjunction with m11, they are pretty much equal for my usage, basically, just a back up to the other bodies, we r in good hands 

I would believe this guy more than someone who has upgraded to and owns only an M11, they will try any argument to justify the upgrade. 😆

[Herr Barnack]

There's a fair amount of discouraging people from upgrading going on in this thread.  You guys should be ashamed of yourselves.

This is why we can't have nice things around here. 🙄

[Warton]

18 hours ago, Herr Barnack said:

There's a fair amount of discouraging people from upgrading going on in this thread.  You guys should be ashamed of yourselves.

This is why we can't have nice things around here. 🙄

I’m confused by your verbiage.

Do you mean people who encourage others to upgrade are nice things, or upgraded things are always nice?

[Herr Barnack]

2 hours ago, Warton said:

I’m confused by your verbiage.

Do you mean people who encourage others to upgrade are nice things, or upgraded things are always nice?

Apologies for the confusion - I was merely typing in jest.

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[Al Brown]

3 minutes ago, Herr Barnack said:

Apologies for the confusion - I was merely typing in jest.

Back after some 6 months sabbatical... hope all is OK