M11 or M10-D

[leicaoptik]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I have a M10-D, it is my first digital M.

Never had the impression or feeling that I missed a picture because of lacking that back screen or not having the latest sensor installed.

The results are always good enough to leave a smile on my face.

If you want a "pure" Leica feeling (besides the analog sisters), you should go for the M10-D.

The investment grade is higher with her and the satisfaction factor gives the rest.

May the Leica M12 have a "picture bell ring" or an "Artificial Intelligence-sensor", with the M10-D we can lean back and relax and just take our picture without a technical pressure.

Wishing you a pleasant decision,

take care Philip

 

[shirubadanieru]

Body design wise the M10-D is the best Leica has ever done. You really do hold it like you would a film Leica and it feels so much better in the hand VS any other digital model. 

That being said, the M11 itself is already ridiculously priced, and I wouldn’t get the M10-D for the same price, unless the price is not really a concern for you. 

I don’t like the M11 at all, so if I were given a choice I’d get the M10-D, but in reality I wouldn’t get either. The only digital that does it for me is the MM, but oh man how cool would it be if Leica launched an MM with the body design of the M10-D! 

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[evikne]

On 12/29/2022 at 11:54 PM, ecpwll said:

Hey all,

First post here!  So I am in the market for a new camera, and I am looking to finally buy a Leica.  I was going to pull the trigger on an M11, but then I found an M10-D for sale which I was also very interested in at one point a while ago but couldn't find one to buy.  The M10-D for sale is in mint condition, selling at the same price as a new M11.

Obviously it is a fairly silly question as it is such a personal decision, but just in case it helps me decide– which one would you get and why?

I would wait for the M11-D, but that's because I already own a Leica. 😉

If it was my first Leica, I'd probably make the same mistake again: buy the current standard version and regret it when the D model is released.

Edited March 2, 2023 by evikne

[scott kirkpatrick]

Can't really help.  I have both, use both.  Like both.  The M10-D is going to hold its value unusually well, since it is a bit rare.  And it is a bit more discreet.  The M11 has an awesome chip in it, and the VF2 is an excellent help when I am shooting slowly.

[fenykepesz]

just in case somebody is looking desperately for a used M10-D - i decided to sell mine - look under Classifieds/Gebrauchtmarkt.

(i hope this kind of selfadvertisement is ok on this forum...?  i begin to feel a bit awkward with these many referrals.)

[kivis]

I would go for the M11.

[Al Brown]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Rumors abound on the forum of M11-D...

[Stevejack]

While waiting for the M11-D I broke down and ended up buying an M10-D, and will be selling my MP.  

I love holding the film cameras. The lack of screen makes a massive difference to the ergonomics, you're not holding the camera by the edges but gripping the entire body. It's enough of a difference that I started carrying a film body as my daily camera just for the ergonomics and because I like to feel like I'm using a machine rather than a computer.

My intention was to carry the MP or M3 everywhere. No battery to worry about and no screen... but I'm just not using film enough day to day. I love shooting film when I'm home with the kids and for general family snaps, or when I feel like using an analog camera.  But I like to walk down the street, take some absolutely nothing shots, come back to my desk and analyse them as a way to improve. I want to capture the shot, but they're nothing amazing so I don't tend to waste film on them. I think it's mostly about taking photos to keep my eye in practice and assess the results, and you can't really beat digital for that.

So I'm planning to carry the M10d around as my daily driver, as an alternative to carrying a film body, and will eventually upgrade to the M11-D if it ever gets released. 

Might have been a crazy decision with all the rumours of an M11-D coming soon, but who knows. I'm sure it will still find a buyer if that day ever comes.

 

[fenykepesz]

vor 11 Stunden schrieb Stevejack:

While waiting for the M11-D I broke down and ended up buying an M10-D...

Might have been a crazy decision with all the rumours of an M11-D coming soon, but who knows. I'm sure it will still find a buyer if that day ever comes.

nice collection of pictures on instagem, @Stevejack !  many b&w - i guess, from b&w film, or converted from digital color ?

5-6y ago i too was waiting for a usable/useful digital camera, by then already for more than a decade actually during which i had seen an M60 at a photo fair in NYC, as a prototype behind glas i believe, what a revealing prophetic moment !  thereafter did the M10-D surface finally for which i was lucky enough to allocate the necessary money ! the M10-D is like working with film : it allows to focus entirely on the picture taking moment, no other non-sense dancing in front of my eye (for my taste at least), solely the story-telling motif, the one my mind wants to focus on !

M10-D vs M11-D ?  the truth is that i am in the midst of selling my M10-D - in the hope that its successor will show up soon.  why a new one ?  what for ?  is it really needed ?  will it make my photos look better ?  naah - i guess not !  better sensor whatever and so on, bla bla bla.  it's just a technical itch, i need to be honest about that...

and by no means will it ever enhance my luck for catching those precious motifs and situations that deserve to be documented !  

Edited February 9 by fenykepesz

[JoshuaRothman]

12 hours ago, Stevejack said:

While waiting for the M11-D I broke down and ended up buying an M10-D, and will be selling my MP.  

I'm seriously considering an M10-D. There's one in stock at a store near me. I have an M10, an M10M, a Q2, and an M6. I love using my screenless film M, but don't particularly like 35mm film these days; I also rarely use my Q2. Almost everything I do, I do with my M10 and M10M. So I could easily imagine trading it my Q2, M6, and M10 for an M10-D. I'm 99% sure that a screenless digital M would quickly become my favorite camera. 

What's stopping me is the cost. I've always bought my gear heavily used, and even though the total cost of what I own is astronomical, the cost of each individual camera is low enough that, if I lost or destroyed the camera, I could replace it. This means that I'm never shy about taking my cameras with me. I'll take my M10 kayaking, or into the pool with my kids, or on long wilderness trips. Would I do the same with an M10-D (or M11)? I'm not sure. I might find that the prospect of damaging an $8,000 camera is too inhibiting. In that sense, it might be less fun.

My current plan is to wait for another couple of weeks. By then, the M10-D will have sold to someone else, and common sense will have prevailed. I'll go back to enjoying my "affordable" M10 and M10M . . . .

Edited February 9 by JoshuaRothman

[Stevejack]

7 hours ago, fenykepesz said:

nice collection of pictures on instagem, @Stevejack !  many b&w - i guess, from b&w film, or converted from digital color ?

5-6y ago i too was waiting for a usable/useful digital camera, by then already for more than a decade actually during which i had seen an M60 at a photo fair in NYC, as a prototype behind glas i believe, what a revealing prophetic moment !  thereafter did the M10-D surface finally for which i was lucky enough to allocate the necessary money ! the M10-D is like working with film : it allows to focus entirely on the picture taking moment, no other non-sense dancing in front of my eye (for my taste at least), solely the story-telling motif, the one my mind wants to focus on !

M10-D vs M11-D ?  the truth is that i am in the midst of selling my M10-D - in the hope that its successor will show up soon.  why a new one ?  what for ?  is it really needed ?  will it make my photos look better ?  naah - i guess not !  better sensor whatever and so on, bla bla bla.  it's just a technical itch, i need to be honest about that...

and by no means will it ever enhance my luck for catching those precious motifs and situations that deserve to be documented !  

Thank you, my instagram is a bit of a mix - M10M, M11 and M11M, also some film (M3 and MP) and some taken on a Hasselblad 500c/m film camera using a digital back, or with my Sony. 

Yeah the M11D should have enough quality of life improvements over the M10D that it will be a worthwhile upgrade. I preferred a lot of things about the M10 series of cameras, but ended transitioning to the M11 series due to those quality of life improvements. Battery life and much less live view lag were the big ones for me. I like using wide lenses, and for those I have the Visoflex and the experience with wide lenses + visoflex on the M11 is a massive upgrade. 

Good luck with the sale, as you say the M11-D won't improve your photos any more than moving from digital to film would, but it should give you enough quality of life improvements that it'll be a worthwhile upgrade!

[Stevejack]

7 hours ago, JoshuaRothman said:

 

My current plan is to wait for another couple of weeks. By then, the M10-D will have sold to someone else, and common sense will have prevailed. I'll go back to enjoying my "affordable" M10 and M10M . . . .

Yeah I waited for years thinking the same, and now on the eve of a possible M11-D release I jump in.  It's about replacing the MP for me, rather than another digital camera, so I guess I'm justifying it that way. Good luck with your decision, it's definitely not an easy one.

I'll still shoot film - A while back I picked up a lovely M3 black paint which I never plan to sell, it was completely re-done by KANTO and that's the camera I use to take a lot of the photos of my kids. The hope is that one day I'll pass it onto my kids, who will take photos of their own kids with it, and it can be a nice piece of family history.

But for a daily carry, always in my car type of camera camera I'm replacing the MP with a screenless digital now and (hopefully) won't look back. 

Edited February 10 by Stevejack

[grahamc]

On 2/9/2024 at 3:55 PM, Stevejack said:

While waiting for the M11-D I broke down and ended up buying an M10-D, and will be selling my MP.  

I love holding the film cameras. The lack of screen makes a massive difference to the ergonomics, you're not holding the camera by the edges but gripping the entire body. It's enough of a difference that I started carrying a film body as my daily camera just for the ergonomics and because I like to feel like I'm using a machine rather than a computer.

My intention was to carry the MP or M3 everywhere. No battery to worry about and no screen... but I'm just not using film enough day to day. I love shooting film when I'm home with the kids and for general family snaps, or when I feel like using an analog camera.  But I like to walk down the street, take some absolutely nothing shots, come back to my desk and analyse them as a way to improve. I want to capture the shot, but they're nothing amazing so I don't tend to waste film on them. I think it's mostly about taking photos to keep my eye in practice and assess the results, and you can't really beat digital for that.

So I'm planning to carry the M10d around as my daily driver, as an alternative to carrying a film body, and will eventually upgrade to the M11-D if it ever gets released. 

Might have been a crazy decision with all the rumours of an M11-D coming soon, but who knows. I'm sure it will still find a buyer if that day ever comes.

 

Good choice !  FWIW I tested the M11 (standard version) next to my M10-D and much preferred the 10 .   So that very quickly (and thankfully $) killed any GAS I may have had for 11, 11-P or 11-D 

[Stevejack]

1 hour ago, grahamc said:

Good choice !  FWIW I tested the M11 (standard version) next to my M10-D and much preferred the 10 .   So that very quickly (and thankfully $) killed any GAS I may have had for 11, 11-P or 11-D 

Yeah I am very happy with the M10 series as a rangefinder. 

Problem is that I like using the visoflex with my wide lenses and the live view improvements are so significant on the M11, along with much better battery life, that it was worth the upgrade for me in the end. Still generally happy with the M11 series and will consider the M11-D pretty closely if it gets released, but there won't be any rush to move on from the M10-D given that I'm only planning to use it as a rangefinder 👍

[kiwidad]

5 hours ago, Stevejack said:

Yeah I am very happy with the M10 series as a rangefinder. 

Problem is that I like using the visoflex with my wide lenses and the live view improvements are so significant on the M11, along with much better battery life, that it was worth the upgrade for me in the end. Still generally happy with the M11 series and will consider the M11-D pretty closely if it gets released, but there won't be any rush to move on from the M10-D given that I'm only planning to use it as a rangefinder 👍

I acquired a Q2 and then an M10.

I was never really happy with the visoflex on the M10 so I moved up to an M11. I already liked the Q2 menus over the M10 so it was an easy transition for me. As far as Image quality goes its so hard to really tell but when you make a 6'x4' poster it shows 🙂

Handling wise theM11 is much easier to swap batteries and also they last way longer than the M10 did. Other than that it works and handles like my M3 and M10 for that matter did. I also like the lower weight of the black model!

 

 

 

[fenykepesz]

@dkmoore wrote under a different topic :

 

Am 6.2.2024 um 20:43 schrieb dkmoore:

Used market is very slow right now in general. (I buy and sell a ton of Leica gear). To sell a camera like the M10D or M10R black paint, for premium pricing and old generation, you need to find the exact right buyer, which slows things a bit. 
 

I highly encourage you to check out the Leica classifieds on Facebook. It’s safe and a good community. No fees. 
 

I’ve listed a few items on l-camera classifieds over the years and there was zero traffic. I believe that is very typical of the L-camera classifieds and wouldn’t recommend usage personally. 
 

 

the market for used M10-Ds appears to be truly very slow, and hence i am asking here for advice how to sell my M10-D camera body.  i put my ads for several weeks out on ::

(1) a local Kijiji website, with visit numbers and valid replies that were pretty satisfactory, though no sale yet ; 

(2) then on Facebook groups such as [ Leica Exchange ; Leica M10 User Group ; Leica Buy and Sell ; Leica camera for sale and buy ; Leica M10 M10P M10M M10R M10D Cameras ; Leica M10-D User Group ; Leica Canada Buy | Sell | Trade ] with practically zero response (expect for two suspected scammers and some 'likes/thumbs up') ;

(3) no success in getting accepted to the main Facebook Leica sell/buy club, that's LEICA Classifieds, as nihil response from the administrators ;

(4) and finally no success using the Classified of this very Leica Forum, just simply no sign of life whatsoever, how disappointing ! @dkmoore was right in this respect !

(5) i avoided eBay so far...

now, technicalities may play a role here as i am in no way expert in tuning Facebook's gazillion options for Notifications and Messengers and may have therefore missed messages - or it may be the price i ask for that could chase away interested folks (but please don't tell me that the M10-D goes for €6500 or less, i never found one for that price despite others suggesting such, but i saw this year several used M10-Ds internationally going for around €8000 (converted)).

i am in no big rush to sell my much-loved M10-D (i shot indeed just this morning a lovely picture of two men on the street working with wires) - but still, zero interaction is a bit worrisome, right ?  where is then the issue ?  am i just to impatient ?

Edited March 2 by fenykepesz

[grahamc]

2 hours ago, fenykepesz said:

@dkmoore wrote under a different topic :

 

the market for used M10-Ds appears to be truly very slow, and hence i am asking here for advice how to sell my M10-D camera body.  i put my ads for several weeks out on ::

(1) a local Kijiji website, with visit numbers and valid replies that were pretty satisfactory, though no sale yet ; 

(2) then on Facebook groups such as [ Leica Exchange ; Leica M10 User Group ; Leica Buy and Sell ; Leica camera for sale and buy ; Leica M10 M10P M10M M10R M10D Cameras ; Leica M10-D User Group ; Leica Canada Buy | Sell | Trade ] with practically zero response (expect for two suspected scammers and some 'likes/thumbs up') ;

(3) no success in getting accepted to the main Facebook Leica sell/buy club, that's LEICA Classifieds, as nihil response from the administrators ;

(4) and finally no success using the Classified of this very Leica Forum, just simply no sign of life whatsoever, how disappointing ! @dkmoore was right in this respect !

(5) i avoided eBay so far...

now, technicalities may play a role here as i am in no way expert in tuning Facebook's gazillion options for Notifications and Messengers and may have therefore missed messages - or it may be the price i ask for that could chase away interested folks (but please don't tell me that the M10-D goes for €6500 or less, i never found one for that price despite others suggesting such, but i saw this year several used M10-Ds internationally going for around €8000 (converted)).

i am in no big rush to sell my much-loved M10-D (i shot indeed just this morning a lovely picture of two men on the street working with wires) - but still, zero interaction is a bit worrisome, right ?  where is then the issue ?  am i just to impatient ?

Hi Feny

Have you tried Fred Miranda forum.  The 2 that have sold at asking price in the last 3 months look to have been in excellent condition (listed at 9 out of 10 condition) and sold at USD 6450 and 6500 .

Here is an example of one of them to show condition.

There is also a current 'wanted' advert on the same forum from someone who is seeking an M10-D .  You can view their post it here  

Hope it helps & I'm sorry that the prices (on that trading site anyway) are what you asked not to name.  But it's a busy trading place of enthusiasts if you do want to sell it relatively quickly and painlessly.  I tend to view it as a truer indicator of market pricing than the big auction site or retailers. 

Best 
Graham 

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Edited March 2 by grahamc

[costa43]

On 2/14/2024 at 7:47 AM, grahamc said:

Good choice !  FWIW I tested the M11 (standard version) next to my M10-D and much preferred the 10 .   So that very quickly (and thankfully $) killed any GAS I may have had for 11, 11-P or 11-D 

Hi Graham, may I ask, was it the output over the m11 that you had a strong preference for or just the handling/experience of using the m10d? 

[fenykepesz]

vor 13 Minuten schrieb grahamc:

Hi Feny

Have you tried Fred Miranda forum.  The 2 that have sold at asking price in the last 3 months look to have been in excellent condition (listed at 9 out of 10 condition) and sold at USD 6450 and 6500 .

Here is an example of one of them to show condition.

There is also a current 'wanted' advert on the same forum from someone who is seeking an M10-D .  You can view their post it here  

Hope it helps & I'm sorry that the prices (on that trading site anyway) are what you asked not to name.  But it's a busy trading place of enthusiasts if you do want to sell it relatively quickly and painlessly 

Best 
Graham 

thank you, @grahamc, i will again look into this fredmiranda website.  i was vaguely familiar with its name but didn't check it out really.  that's now next to do...

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[grahamc]

53 minutes ago, costa43 said:

Hi Graham, may I ask, was it the output over the m11 that you had a strong preference for or just the handling/experience of using the m10d? 

Hi Costa 

For me, it was base only on output .  I loaned the M11 a few weeks before the M11-P launch., with the intention of then buying a P.

But when I compared my images side by side (same lens) my personal preference was much more in favour of the 10 sensor (more 'pop' to the images, warmer rendering which I prefer, magenta bias in the 11 files). And of lesser concern was my 10-D images were sharper which I suppose was user-error.

For my own use case I've not been tempted by m11 since