M11 freeze issues [Merged]

[elmars]

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vor 6 Stunden schrieb hdmesa:

Freezes have come back for my fourth M11. At this point, I've done everything suggested herein:

• Current firmware
• Full reset of camera
• Saving a user profile
• Using only 6-bit coded lenses
• Formatting SD cards with 3rd party utility
• Trying slower UHS-I SD card
• Etc.

– except trying a completely new SD card. I supposed it's possible I've received three defective units (first unit had a rangefinder issue), but it seems that something I'm doing could be common denominator – either settings or SD cards. Currently have been using Sandisk and Sony Tough in multiple speeds and capacities, all of which work flawlessly in my SL2-S. I've ordered a Delkin Black 64gb UHS-II as a last attempt to stop the freezing. Will report back. Not expecting a remedy, but I think it makes sense to try.

It is rather unlikeply that You got three defective M11. People also tried different SD-Cards in all variations. Why do computers freeze? In my observation it can happen if one does everything in the same way as ever. Perhaps the M11 is so complex that we never will get rid of all freezes. The only thing that wonders me that there are people who have freezes (rather often, not rarely) and others who have none. Like me, never ever a freeze after the release firmware. But I had overexposure. 

With my M10 I had some month with occasional freezes. Then they were gone. I don´t know why. I changed nothing in my use.

So my advise: Be happy with freezes from time to time or give the camera back (finally). If You detect a pattern in the freezes report it to eica.

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[SrMi]

6 hours ago, hdmesa said:

Freezes have come back for my fourth M11. At this point, I've done everything suggested herein:

• Current firmware
• Full reset of camera
• Saving a user profile
• Using only 6-bit coded lenses
• Formatting SD cards with 3rd party utility
• Trying slower UHS-I SD card
• Etc.

– except trying a completely new SD card. I supposed it's possible I've received three defective units (first unit had a rangefinder issue), but it seems that something I'm doing could be common denominator – either settings or SD cards. Currently have been using Sandisk and Sony Tough in multiple speeds and capacities, all of which work flawlessly in my SL2-S. I've ordered a Delkin Black 64gb UHS-II as a last attempt to stop the freezing. Will report back. Not expecting a remedy, but I think it makes sense to try.

Bummer :(.

I have two M11s that are working properly. 

Maybe you are using your M11 differently than I am, or certain settings trigger the freeze. You could share all your settings, and those with non-freezing M11s could compare it with their settings.

[elmars]

vor 48 Minuten schrieb SrMi:

Bummer :(.

I have two M11s that are working properly. 

Maybe you are using your M11 differently than I am, or certain settings trigger the freeze. You could share all your settings, and those with non-freezing M11s could compare it with their settings.

Good idea. I will mail my settings to anybody who wants them. 

[lct]

I see that some of you are using Delkin cards here. Could it be that they have the CFExpress format? 

[jdlaing]

17 minutes ago, lct said:

I see that some of you are using Delkin cards here. Could it be that they have the CFExpress format? 

Won’t do much in an M body.

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[jakontil]

4 hours ago, elmars said:

Good idea. I will mail my settings to anybody who wants them. 

I’d be interested to know! 

[lct]

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37 minutes ago, jdlaing said:

Won’t do much in an M body.

I was referring to Type A CFexpress cards. I have no experience with them. Do you mean they don't fit the M11?

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[jdlaing]

26 minutes ago, lct said:

I was referring to Type A CFexpress cards. I have no experience with them. Do you mean they don't fit the M11?

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Look at the shape of the card. 

[SrMi]

1 hour ago, lct said:

I was referring to Type A CFexpress cards. I have no experience with them. Do you mean they don't fit the M11?

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No, they don't fit. The slots for CFExpress A cards typically allow SD cards but not vice versa.

CFExpress Type A: 20 x 28 x 2.8 mm.

SD card: 24.0 × 32 x 2.1 mm

[hdmesa]

8 hours ago, SrMi said:

Bummer :(.

I have two M11s that are working properly. 

Maybe you are using your M11 differently than I am, or certain settings trigger the freeze. You could share all your settings, and those with non-freezing M11s could compare it with their settings.

So far this morning I haven't had any freezes after trying some different things in combination. Not sure if it will last, but usually it would have already frozen on the first or second startup the morning:

• Coded lens
• Sleep settings off for display and camera
• Saved a user profile (realized I hadn't done that yet under 1.6.1)
• Went back to Multi-field metering instead of Highlight-weighted
• Not using the thumb grip (crazy, but could the thumb grip be hitting a contact on the hotshoe and causing a freeze?)
• Using the Sandisk 64 UHS-II while I wait on the Delkin Black

9 hours ago, elmars said:

It is rather unlikely that you got three defective M11...

I agree! That's why I'm starting to think it's some combination of my settings and/or lenses that is triggering the freeze. 

 

@SrMi, Here's everything I set differently than factory default that will provoke freezing on startup occasionally. Items in grey also happen with default settings, so we can rule those out:

• Auto ISO set to a shutter speed limit (1/125 or 1/60) instead of the formula 
• Max ISO 25K
• File format: DNG + JPEG (freezes also happen with default DNG-only)
• Monochrome JPEG setting almost exclusively (no custom modifications)
• Auto Review = Off
• Rear wheel = exposure comp
• Rear dial push = film style or sometimes ISO
• Top button near shutter = Focus aid
• Capture Assistants: Focus aid = Manual (freezes also happen with default Auto as well)
• Storage Management: IN=SD or SD-only
• Date/time set to US conventions (12-hour, Month/Day/Year)
• Lenses used: most often freezes with uncoded CV 35 1.5, happened once with coded 50 Cron v5 but only after changing to it from the CV 35
• Physical add-ons: Leica thumb grip (has been extremely tight to slide in on all copies of the M11)

 

[hdmesa]

4 hours ago, lct said:

I was referring to Type A CFexpress cards. I have no experience with them. Do you mean they don't fit the M11?

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I wish. CFExpress in both the smaller A size and larger B size are wicked fast. But they also run very hot and would probably overheat an M11, which is probably why Leica has stayed with standard SD cards for now.

[hdmesa]

Update: After flawlessly using both the 35 and 50 Cron, I switch back to the CV 35 1.5. Got freezes after the first few off/on cycles. Reset the camera the put on the 50 Cron. Had to reset it one more time, now it's ok.

So I pulled off the CV lens and compared it to the Cron. Is it possible that Voigtlander put their engraving too close to where the 6-bit code goes? This doesn't confuse my SL2-S with M-Adapter-L, but it could be messing with the code reader on the M11.

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[Qlan]

18 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

Update: After flawlessly using both the 35 and 50 Cron, I switch back to the CV 35 1.5. Got freezes after the first few off/on cycles. Reset the camera the put on the 50 Cron. Had to reset it one more time, now it's ok.

So I pulled off the CV lens and compared it to the Cron. Is it possible that Voigtlander put their engraving too close to where the 6-bit code goes? This doesn't confuse my SL2-S with M-Adapter-L, but it could be messing with the code reader on the M11.

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My theory has always been that this kind of freezes (at startup) is caused by the lens detection module. So I won’t be surprised if that’s the case. 

[tom0511]

Since I am also one of those without freezes I expect it could have to do something with settings, or as some say with lens code, or sd card, or....

Would be interesting to collect all those data, analyse and see if there are similatities of settings when freezes appear.

I think this would be Leicas homework

In regards of cf card - something one can check out at home - use the cam with different cards and see how it behaves. 

[lct]

45 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

So I pulled off the CV lens and compared it to the Cron. Is it possible that Voigtlander put their engraving too close to where the 6-bit code goes? This doesn't confuse my SL2-S with M-Adapter-L, but it could be messing with the code reader on the M11.

This would cause problems for other M users then, yet my dozen CV and ZM lenses are all hand-coded with no freeze at all (FW 1.6.1, UHS1& UHS2 Sandisk cards).

[hdmesa]

17 minutes ago, lct said:

This would cause problems for other M users then, yet my dozen CV and ZM lenses are all hand-coded with no freeze at all (FW 1.6.1, UHS1& UHS2 Sandisk cards).

I'm not referring to hand-coded CV or ZM lenses, I'm asking if specifically the 35 1.5 has the "COSINA CO, LTD" engraving too close to where the 6-bit code should go. The M11 6-bit code reader may be trying to read the edge of that engraving. If all other CV lenses have the engraving in the same place, then my theory is not valid. Do you see the engraving in my photo to which I'm referring? It's possible if I hand-coded or sent the lens to DAG to have the mount replaced with a 6-bit-code mount it could solve the problem (if this is indeed a problem at all).

Edited March 29, 2023 by hdmesa

[hdmesa]

46 minutes ago, tom0511 said:

Since I am also one of those without freezes I expect it could have to do something with settings, or as some say with lens code, or sd card, or....

Would be interesting to collect all those data, analyse and see if there are similatities of settings when freezes appear.

I think this would be Leicas homework

In regards of cf card - something one can check out at home - use the cam with different cards and see how it behaves. 

Leica is/was doing that. They had a long list of question for me when I emailed them about my last M11 freezing. I'm sure they're throwing it all into a spreadsheet for analysis.

[lct]

14 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

I'm asking if specifically the 35 1.5 has the "COSINA CO, LTD" engraving too close to where the 6-bit code should go.

I have no experience with this lens but i don't think so. See the CV 28/2's flange below.

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[Kwesi]

4 minutes ago, lct said:

I have no experience with this lens but i don't think so. See the CV 28/2's flange below.

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1 hour ago, hdmesa said:

Update: After flawlessly using both the 35 and 50 Cron, I switch back to the CV 35 1.5. Got freezes after the first few off/on cycles. Reset the camera the put on the 50 Cron. Had to reset it one more time, now it's ok.

So I pulled off the CV lens and compared it to the Cron. Is it possible that Voigtlander put their engraving too close to where the 6-bit code goes? This doesn't confuse my SL2-S with M-Adapter-L, but it could be messing with the code reader on the M11.

It doesn't look like the engraving is in the same position.

HDMesa, why not try a cheap Chinese flange to test your theory? chances are the focus will be off but if the camera doesn't freeze then send it off to DAG and have him code it it with a proper flange for you

[hdmesa]

4 minutes ago, Kwesi said:

 

It doesn't look like the engraving is in the same position.

HDMesa, why not try a cheap Chinese flange to test your theory? chances are the focus will be off but if the camera doesn't freeze then send it off to DAG and have him code it it with a proper flange for you

I have the CV 75 1.9 inbound, arriving tomorrow or Friday. If my M11 works with the 75 without freeing, then I will know it's something about the 35 1.5 causing the problem. If that's the case, I will have to decide whether to just sell it or have it 6-bit coded.

Since my M11 is not freezing during use, it absolutely has to be something the camera does at startup. Aside from it checking the SD card, I can't think of a more obvious culprit than the camera scanning for the 6-bit code.

I also still need to try turning Lens Detection "off" every time before attaching the 35 1.5 to see if that fixes the issue. I tried that under previous firmware but not 1.6.1.