My new M11 is bricked... Leica Spain

[elmars]

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vor 2 Stunden schrieb lct:

on my M8.2

The M8 and M9 were totaly different in this regard. They had nearly no starting time, because of their much simpler technology, which consisted of standard building blocks.

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[lct]

2 hours ago, elmars said:

The M8 and M9 were totaly different in this regard. They had nearly no starting time, because of their much simpler technology, which consisted of standard building blocks.

Then how do you explain that startup times take 1s with old SD cards vs 2s with  SDHC ones on the M240. It is obvious that card format plays a role here. 

[elmars]

This might be. But I don‘t know because I never use different types of cards in the same camera.

If You turn on M8 or M9 the different functions are ready at different times. You can shoot immediately, playing photos takes time. From the M240 on all functions are usable at the same time but this last one to two sec. 

[Adam Bonn]

23 minutes ago, lct said:

Then how do you explain that startup times take 1s with old SD cards vs 2s with  SDHC ones on the M240. It is obvious that card format plays a role here. 

PERHAPS it’s not so much old or new or FAT vs exFAT but size?

iirc (big if..) the 240 booted up faster the smaller the installed card was. Which implies (to me anyway, but I don’t claim any deep knowledge in the world of camera OS) that it’s checking the card some how (after all if does tell you if there isn’t a card or if the card is locked)

interestingly (erm or not) I tested my M10 and M10R for start up with the same card  (held down shutter, flicked on power, waied for shutter whilst sound recording this, then after measured the time on the sound file) and basically as an average my 10 is 1.5 secs, the R is 1.8

AFAIK the only chipset difference between the 10 and R is the sensor, so one assumes (dangerous I know..) bigger sensor = slower start up and bigger card = slower check time

Then the M11 comes along with 60mpx and two storage devices (and perhaps a penchant for 128gb cards amongst its owners)

just thinking out loud here really… 

[lct]

35 minutes ago, elmars said:

This might be. But I don‘t know because I never use different types of cards in the same camera.

If You turn on M8 or M9 the different functions are ready at different times. You can shoot immediately, playing photos takes time. From the M240 on all functions are usable at the same time but this last one to two sec. 

My point was not M8 or M9 vs M240 sorry if i was unclear. Fact: the same camera (M240) has fast (1s) or slow (2s) startup times depending upon the format or the memory cards used (SD vs SDHC). Question: If the card format plays a role in this example, why would not it play a role on the M11 as well? I mean i have drawn the attention to this for several months here as i was one of the lucky M11 users having zero issue before the firmware update. The reason was i was using UHS-I cards only i suspected. Purely empirical feeling. Now, after the firmware update, i got a couple of freezes with a UHS-II card, but still zero problem with my UHS-I cards. Again simple facts. I am no techie enough to explain why but this format card question is the only reason why i keep my M11 as i would never accept a camera with any freeze issue at any price.

Edited December 25, 2022 by lct

[lct]

19 minutes ago, Adam Bonn said:

iirc (big if..) the 240 booted up faster the smaller the installed card was [...]

I got average 2s startup times with 8GB to 64GB SDHC cards on the M240, the latter being the faster or among the faster. I did those comparos in 2014 or 2015 here but i can't seem to retrieve the link sorry.

[elmars]

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vor 42 Minuten schrieb lct:

as i would never accept a camera with any freeze issue at any price.

I fear there is no camera (or computer) without any freeze. 

[lct]

Just now, elmars said:

I fear there is no camera (or computer) without any freeze. 

My Fuji, Nikon, Sony, Panasonic, Sigma and Ricoh digital cameras have never got the least freeze in 20 years. My M11 has got three of them yet, one before the firmware update, two after it, all on UHS-II cards, none on UHS-I card. Simple facts again.

[Adam Bonn]

(I suspect yes..) has anyone tried to only use the m11 with the inbuilt storage? And if so...? 

[Jeff S]

9 minutes ago, Adam Bonn said:

(I suspect yes..) has anyone tried to only use the m11 with the inbuilt storage? And if so...? 

One data point…

Jeff

[Adam Bonn]

6 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

One data point…

Jeff

Thanks 

The final post in that thread is the most interesting 

Shame it's a sample size of one 

[charlesphoto99]

7 hours ago, lct said:

Then how do you explain that startup times take 1s with old SD cards vs 2s with  SDHC ones on the M240 while they remain the same with any card (1s) on my M8.2?  The M11 does no better nor worse than the M240 from this viewpoint.

No clue, never owned a 240 (went from 9 to 10). My 10-R BP back buttons do freeze up now and then (possibly heat related) though the entire camera can keep shooting, just no replay etc.(I'll send in someday before warranty is up). My point being that there is little to no consistency, as far as I can tell, between models. The electronics has always been Leica's achilles heel. 

[charlesphoto99]

1 hour ago, elmars said:

I fear there is no camera (or computer) without any freeze. 

I've never once had a Nikon freeze up on me. The M9 was a constant parade of battery pops, the M10 almost never, and the 10-R BP only a handful so far (except for the back button freeze issue).  

[Jeff S]

9 minutes ago, Adam Bonn said:

 

The final post in that thread is the most interesting 

 

Yes, I linked to that post only.

Jeff

[SrMi]

2 hours ago, lct said:

My Fuji, Nikon, Sony, Panasonic, Sigma and Ricoh digital cameras have never got the least freeze in 20 years. My M11 has got three of them yet, one before the firmware update, two after it, all on UHS-II cards, none on UHS-I card. Simple facts again.

My Leica SL2, Nikon D5 & D850, Fuji GFX50S, and X1D all froze. Removing the battery solved the freeze. None of those cameras did lock up as frequently as M11 before the latest firmware.
From your issues with UHS-II cards, it is also clear that you have a broken camera and therefore see more freezes than others.

[lct]

12 minutes ago, SrMi said:

From your issues with UHS-II cards, it is also clear that you have a broken camera and therefore see more freezes than others.

A camera that has been working flawlessly for 8 months and 5,000+ shots is the opposite to a broken camera to me. Works so well with UHS-I cards that i won't take the risk to trade it for a new body that could be faulty with UHS-I and UHS-II cards since some of our colleagues are reporting issues with both here.

[Antonio Russell]

I can happily report that UHS-II cards are not an issue. Have been using one in my replacement m11 without issue. The latest firmware also seems to be stable. 

[jakontil]

3 hours ago, Musky said:

No this is for the constant orange light of death or red light or death issue. Not lock ups. This camera is beyond just lockups. I’ve read the M11 batteries “feel cheap”. The Indonesia batteries of the M10 are solid. So I don’t know what’s going on here. They should own it and like the original Q, just use a battery that proudly says PANASONIC on it. They make solid stuff.   

Batteries aren’t easy things to make. It almost killed Samsung that f-up with the batteries  

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Im sorry but more reported battery on m10 at least compared to m240… wish i was wrong since i rely on 3 of them right now.. hope they would still last 

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[hmzimelka]

7 hours ago, Musky said:

No this is for the constant orange light of death or red light or death issue. Not lock ups. This camera is beyond just lockups. I’ve read the M11 batteries “feel cheap”. The Indonesia batteries of the M10 are solid. So I don’t know what’s going on here. They should own it and like the original Q, just use a battery that proudly says PANASONIC on it. They make solid stuff.   

Batteries aren’t easy things to make. It almost killed Samsung that f-up with the batteries  

Do you have an M11 because reading your above post it seems you don't... One cannot feel "chemistry" and judge the quality of it by holding a battery cladded in a plastic shell. I cannot fault the M11 batteries that I have. They might feel light relative to the size of the battery, but that is no indication of quality. It's the same example of someone picking up a brass lens and ooohing and aaaahing the build quality is amazing. Haptics and quality are not synonymous. 

Unless I can read a report where where someone actually does physical measurements on power, power draw, charging, etc on the M11 batteries, I won't bother with judging its made in China label based on some prejudiced reasoning. No one so far has even opened one to see what cells are inside!

Edited December 26, 2022 by hmzimelka

[hmzimelka]

24 minutes ago, Musky said:

Not quite what you said here. But okay. Im just agreeing with you that it may be a contributor for the reasons you just mentioned on the other thread of many threads of this M11 not working right.

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What I said was batteries can be a contributor too. They should not be ruled out from the equation where only as cards are currently considered culprits. 
 

Above, I said I don't have any issues with my batteries as they have given no indication with charging issues as a few users have had. 

I also said that without definitive testing one can't make a claim that M11 batteries are bad because of the fact they are made in China. 
 

Your comment on battery quality based on how they feel and where they are made carries little merit unless you can provide data of M11 battery tests. 
 

Not including batteries as possible culprit to freezing is not objective diagnosis. However, it's easier for most people to swap SD cards than batteries. Even good batteries can be faulty.