Just bought my M10 - Disappointments

[cnguyen]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

It's been couple weeks with the M10 - some disappointments - Coming from owning M240 P

- Cons:

- Battery life is short compared to M240P

- Menu is not comprehensive like my M240P - BW tone missing , Color film mode missing, etc

- Body warms up when using live view

 

Pros:

High ISO for low light shooting. 

Better external EVF

Edited July 16, 2022 by cnguyen

[darylgo]

M240, only production M with red framelines.   This feature flies under the radar, I hadn't seen one mention with the release of the M10.  Enjoy your new camera.  

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[jakontil]

40 minutes ago, cnguyen said:

It's been couple weeks with the M10 - some disappointments - Coming from owning M240 P

- Cons:

- Battery life is short compared to M240P

- Menu is not comprehensive like my M240P - BW tone missing , Color film mode missing, etc

- Body warms up when using live view

 

Pros:

High ISO for low light shooting. 

Better external EVF

the only complaint i have for m10 against the m240 was its battery life, though i shot only through the viewfinder most of the times, the m240 would last me plenty shots before it runs out, with that said, i always carry a spare battery with my M240 as well as my M10, even with my M11 just for a peace of mind, though on any occasion, i rarely runs down to 20% before swapping out the battery, just for the sake of lithium longevity

[jaapv]

My M240 heated up quite a bit as well - up to the point of shutting down when using the EVF above 30ºC.

[timo01]

7 hours ago, jakontil said:

the only complaint i have for m10 against the m240 was its battery life

Jep 

[Adam Bonn]

It’s been 14 months since I upgraded from the 240 to the M10

 

cons

M10 battery lasts less time in rangefinder mode and a lot less time in live view mode (I still get around 600 shots from the 10 when not using LV)

No digital spirit level / red framelines (which I actually found visually jarring)

Secondhand price: My seven year old (at time of purchase) 240 was about half the price of my 5 year old (at time of purchase) M10

 

Pros

better iso

nicer colours

nicer files to work with

better high iso

no pushed green shadows

much, much, MUCH less banding at higher iso

less IR contamination 

less populated menus (ie useless TO ME settings, like jpeg ones and ways to disable live view, set up metering)

far nicer image review with 2 pushes on a button to cycle through image review / image review + info (on 240 this is 4 presses)

better EVF experience 

moveable focus box in live view

moveable spot in spot metering 

tangibly thinner and feels nicer in my hand (other hands may vary)

better eye relief, bigger (brighter?) VF

+ stuff I don’t care about, like better lcd and wifi connectivity

 

it’s a wash

M10 is maybe 0.2 seconds faster to start up… both 240/10 are a bit of a joke here compared to the m9

 

 

On the whole I can’t say I’ve regretted it.

[pedaes]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

10 hours ago, cnguyen said:

It's been couple weeks with the M10 - some disappointments - Coming from owning M240 P

- Cons:

- Battery life is short compared to M240P

- Menu is not comprehensive like my M240P - BW tone missing , Color film mode missing, etc

- Body warms up when using live view

 

Pros:

High ISO for low light shooting. 

Better external EVF

All these features were well known and well recorded so should not have been a surprise if you had done minimal research. From the outset it was accepted the smaller battery was the price for a slimmer body. 

So lets hear about the benefits - viewfinder, more accurate rangefinder et al.

[a.noctilux]

M10 can be a very good photographic tool.

Just take it as it is with some flaws, as usual.

When I bought one , early 2017, coming from M9, I saw some benefits and wanting to know the former digital M, I bought the M240 family, to see what I lost.

I know now (after using them for years) that not one digital M is perfect (if possible ?), but compromises must be taken into account.

I end up using more M240 family than I thought and happy with that : M240, M262, M-D, M246 and M10.

So I made my mind with 24Mpix is enough for me, so never want more.

 

M10 (or another M ! ) + one lens, with one more battery (if digital M) in my pocket can be good companion for photographic day.

[RayD28]

I had an M240P and carried two batteries.  Never used the second battery on full-day outings.  M10 requires second battery for same length outing.  Not a big deal.  M10R is a huge step up in ISO performance and makes up for any cons vs M240P.  

[Izzy]

That's usually the case with M10. I had my M240 as well . Pros and Cons with each.  But don't let that stop you from having a great time with it .

[digger1914]

The issue of less battery life is well known and should not be a surprise. It is a result of the smaller body size, which is very much a pro IMHO. I bought a second battery when I got mine, but have only needed it once or twice, maybe because I rarely ever use live view. 

[overexposed]

On 7/17/2022 at 9:37 PM, RayD28 said:

I had an M240P and carried two batteries.  Never used the second battery on full-day outings.  M10 requires second battery for same length outing.  Not a big deal.  M10R is a huge step up in ISO performance and makes up for any cons vs M240P.  

got the M10R after i had the M10M for half a year and was so disappointed by the M10Rs dynamic range and noise levels.

then again, why introduce a 40mp sensor, which allegedly was developed solely for BW, to a color M?

and then give the Q2 mono a 47mp sensor? why they didnt give it the M10M sensor? never got that, but i digress

[elmars]

vor 34 Minuten schrieb overexposed:

then again, why introduce a 40mp sensor, which allegedly was developed solely for BW, to a color M?

This is not right I think. It is the same sensor as in the S3. Both cameras were released late, but the S3 was announced much earlier. 

[overexposed]

10 minutes ago, elmars said:

This is not right I think. It is the same sensor as in the S3. Both cameras were released late, but the S3 was announced much earlier. 

 

might be that the S3 sensor is an "area up-scaled" version of the M10R sensor, but the resolution of the M10M and R are identical, my best guess would be, its the M10M sensor with a bayer filter.

[Jeff S]

13 minutes ago, overexposed said:

 

might be that the S3 sensor is an "area up-scaled" version of the M10R sensor, but the resolution of the M10M and R are identical, my best guess would be, its the M10M sensor with a bayer filter.

We’ve covered this before.  The M10R and M10 Monochrom sensors were derived from the S3 sensor architecture, hence the 40.89 MP.  Just as the M240 was derived from the S007 sensor, a strategy that spreads the development costs. The M10R and M10M started development simultaneously according to Leica execs, but it took longer to finalize the colors with the former (added Bayer filter), hence the later release. 

Jeff

Edited July 19, 2022 by Jeff S

[RayD28]

7 hours ago, overexposed said:

got the M10R after i had the M10M for half a year and was so disappointed by the M10Rs dynamic range and noise levels.

then again, why introduce a 40mp sensor, which allegedly was developed solely for BW, to a color M?

and then give the Q2 mono a 47mp sensor? why they didnt give it the M10M sensor? never got that, but i digress

I read Reid Reviews (Sean Reid) and he compared the M11, M10R and M10M for noise levels.  The M10M was the winner.  

[overexposed]

11 minutes ago, RayD28 said:

I read Reid Reviews (Sean Reid) and he compared the M11, M10R and M10M for noise levels.  The M10M was the winner.  

exactly, so why not use that sensor in the Q2mono?

[Jeff S]

3 hours ago, overexposed said:

exactly, so why not use that sensor in the Q2mono?

The Q2 probably shares sensor architecture with the SL2.  The Q2M is the same, without Bayer filter.  As noted, the M10R and and M10M sensors were derived along with the S3. Otherwise, the M10M would likely have been a derivative of the M10 sensor, as with prior Monochrom development. Different times, different technologies and availability, and different development/cost strategies.  Only Leica knows these things, and they stopped talking about sensor manufacturers a while back.

Jeff

[jakontil]

M10r, the real medium format sensor in a full frame form factor

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[pgh]

12 hours ago, overexposed said:

got the M10R after i had the M10M for half a year and was so disappointed by the M10Rs dynamic range and noise levels.

then again, why introduce a 40mp sensor, which allegedly was developed solely for BW, to a color M?

and then give the Q2 mono a 47mp sensor? why they didnt give it the M10M sensor? never got that, but i digress

For a color sensor the R is pretty good - compared to like, any color sensor.  The monochrom is on a different level because it doesn't have to mess with color, and strictly because of that. This seems like a weird thing to be surprised about.