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SL2-S

nicci78

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Dr. G

Dr. G

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2 hours ago, Chaemono said:

Best implementation of a 24 MPx BSI sensor. S1/S5/α7ΙΙΙ can't keep up for malleability of ISO 6400 files.

This is what I’ve been waiting for.  I was spoiled with my RX1Rii and a7r iii - they could pull up images that were almost completely dark.  When I subsequently used the Q, Q2 and SL2 it was frustrating that even maxing out the shadow slider in LR had no where near the latitude I was getting with the two Sony cameras.  When I tried the S1 I was stunned that at very high ISOs (12,800+) the files were clean.  
 

When we talk about clean files in low light there are inevitably people who chime in saying that IBIS will help keep ISO down to get a low noise image.  That’s all well and good until you have a moving subject and need to use shutter speeds over 1/125-1/250 to keep things sharp.  
 

Although having the 50 1.4 would be beneficial for low light, I imagine that with the APO Summicron-SL lenses wide open, or with any lens stopped down within reason, the SL2-S is going to create amazing low light images. 

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Donzo98

Donzo98

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21 minutes ago, Steven said:

I just did a side by side low light test of the SL2-S against the A7SIII. At ISO 6400 (1/30th), the SL2-S walked all over the sony. They were so much better its not even comparable. 

I am flabbergasted. I learned that word in English class in high school. First time I get to use it. I knew the day would come. 

Post a few samples...

 

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caissa

caissa

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If you want to test the special capabilities of the SL2-S you select a dark scene. I agree.
But to show the special qualities of the SL2 what would you choose ? Probably best would be a scene with a lot of tiny details. So that the higher resolution can be made visible.


Would I shoot a dark street scene with the SL2 ? Probably not, unless it contains anything I am interested in with a lot of details ? What details do I want to show in a dark street ? If I am interested in details I normally select a well lit place. In the dark I am usually not interested in the details, but maybe more in the mood.

As I do almost all my photos in perfect light (or near perfect) the SL2 is great for me.
If I mainly wanted to visit bars and clubs, maybe with musicians etc. or if I was interested in speleology, then I would certainly prefer the SL2-S. Maybe also for astrophotography. Not the best time for nightlife right now in the covid lockdown (or slightly before or after a lockdown).

In the red dot forum (SL2-S report) they show some nice examples. They are well made and show where it is useful. (much better than this boring room, sorry)

 

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Radost

Radost

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3 hours ago, Steven said:

I just did a side by side low light test of the SL2-S against the A7SIII. At ISO 6400 (1/30th), the SL2-S walked all over the sony. They were so much better its not even comparable. 

I am flabbergasted. I learned that word in English class in high school. First time I get to use it. I knew the day would come. 

astonished is better. 🙂

can you post a prores sample?

 

Edited by Radost
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Jeff S

Jeff S

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43 minutes ago, caissa said:

In the red dot forum (SL2-S report) they show some nice examples. They are well made and show where it is useful. (much better than this boring room, sorry)

 

The pics shown in their initial review were provided by Leica.  David Farkas will be posting his own pics after he spends more time with the camera.  Tonight on the Red Dot Forum episode I linked above, he showed some video footage he took with the SL2-S in the last week, in a park with dark shadows and dappled light. Impressive results, showing shadow and highlight details with natural colors. He also showed some video footage with test shots of an X-Rite color checker at a full range of ISOs, which showed low noise and consistent color throughout the ISO Range.  It's a low light demon...video and stills... compared to the SL2; about 2.75 stops better according to his tests (the SL2 weakens noticeably at 6400 and beyond). 

Jeff

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oka

oka

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22 minutes ago, caissa said:

If you want to test the special capabilities of the SL2-S you select a dark scene. I agree.
But to show the special qualities of the SL2 what would you choose ? Probably best would be a scene with a lot of tiny details. So that the higher resolution can be made visible.

 

I have different view regarding the SL2. Yes with bigger resolution you can see fine details in big prints or when pixel peeping. Those who seek details in good light SL2 is good.

BUT other systems comparable bodies are better, actually all of them are better than SL2 regarding the sensor performance. That is my main complain. Even M10R outperform SL2  where we it leads to question why?

Leica talks about economics of scale. SL cron lenses are great example and M10R and S3, sharing basically same sensor (like in my knowledge SL, M10/P and Q).

Leica now chose for SL2 same sensor as what Panasonic uses but even with worst implementation regarding the DR. Also now many sees SL2 as rebranded Panasonic which is not flattering for the Leica brand image.

Why did not Leica shared the newly developed S3 sensor to the bodies? It would have differentiated from Panasonic and would have perform much better.

As SL2 is behind peers almost on all other main features like AF and with bonus, bugs which diminish the user experience I hardly see any reason to pick SL2.

Unless use in low iso, static slow paced photography who seeks the Leica look / lenses. But then, SL2 looks like speciality camera to me and SL2-S as great general camera camera, not the way around.

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oka

oka

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7 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

compared to the SL2; about 2.75 stops better according to his tests (the SL2 weakens noticeably at 6400 and beyond). 

Jeff

This is what I saw on my single test shot. I’ve never seen such difference between on “same” generation cameras. R5/R6 and Z7/Z6 perform quite same when image is resized to same size but between SL2/SL2-S the gap is huge.

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Dr. G

Dr. G

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49 minutes ago, caissa said:

If you want to test the special capabilities of the SL2-S you select a dark scene. I agree.
But to show the special qualities of the SL2 what would you choose ? Probably best would be a scene with a lot of tiny details. So that the higher resolution can be made visible.


Would I shoot a dark street scene with the SL2 ? Probably not, unless it contains anything I am interested in with a lot of details ? What details do I want to show in a dark street ? If I am interested in details I normally select a well lit place. In the dark I am usually not interested in the details, but maybe more in the mood.

As I do almost all my photos in perfect light (or near perfect) the SL2 is great for me.
If I mainly wanted to visit bars and clubs, maybe with musicians etc. or if I was interested in speleology, then I would certainly prefer the SL2-S. Maybe also for astrophotography. Not the best time for nightlife right now in the covid lockdown (or slightly before or after a lockdown).

In the red dot forum (SL2-S report) they show some nice examples. They are well made and show where it is useful. (much better than this boring room, sorry)

 

There is one other scenario that gives the SL2-S an advantage - stopping motion.  Because the noise is lower at higher ISOs you can increase your shutter speed to prevent subject blur without worrying about introducing too much noise.  I could see this coming in handy in an averagely lit room.  
 

When I was in the Leica Store (SoHo) today we were talking about different tools for the job.  I would grab the SL2 if taking photos of detailed architecture outdoors, but the SL2-S if shooting an event indoors without supplemental lighting.  With faster motion...  I’m taking the Canon R5.  Why not a Sony?  The images from R5 have.many more similarities to the images made with the SL2 and SL2-S.  Side by side many wouldn’t be able to tell that they were from different systems.  As photographers who look at images all day the differences can be seen.  I have shown the R5 and SL2 files to people who know nothing about photography and, although they tend to prefer more of the Leica images, they never ask if all the images were with the same camera.  I’ve not found that to be the case when they look at mixed images from the SL2 and my Sony (a9ii and a7r iv).  In that case people can almost always tell the images weren’t made with the same system.

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SrMi

SrMi

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1 hour ago, oka said:

This is what I saw on my single test shot. I’ve never seen such difference between on “same” generation cameras. R5/R6 and Z7/Z6 perform quite same when image is resized to same size but between SL2/SL2-S the gap is huge.

While they are "same" generation cameras, the sensors are not.
Z 6/Z 7 have the "same" sensor technology & manufacturer; the main difference is the resolution. SL2-S has switched to a different manufacturer (Sony?) and technology. That is probably the reason for the observed difference.

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Chaemono

Chaemono

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vor 3 Stunden schrieb oka:

...BUT other systems comparable bodies are better, actually all of them are better than SL2 regarding the sensor performance. That is my main complain. Even M10R outperform SL2  where we it leads to question why?

...

SL2 beats the α7R III/IV, S1R at base ISO regarding sensor performance and malleability of files. Starting at #20 here: 

 

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LocalHero1953

LocalHero1953

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Such contradictory evidence, reports..........SL2-S is anything from 0 to 2.75 stops better than the SL2 in low light.............AF is much improved/unchanged..........DR is better/worse.

Even though, for any camera, there are so many variables and so many ways to make 'equivalent' shots for the comparisons, I am more eager to get my own to play with than any other new release I bought into (M240, SL, SL2, TL2, CL) where the consensus was much clearer.

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Chaemono

Chaemono

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At ISO 6400, SL2-S is 2.75 stops better than SL2. I'm not willing to post the pictures. ISO 100-800 is an entirely different matter. Depending on the scene, ISO 1600 is where the gap starts to become wider exponentially, particularly if one has to touch the Shadows slider ever so slightly. 

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Chaemono

Chaemono

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vor 14 Minuten schrieb Steven:

Which Sony cannot do!

α7R III ISO 12800 in low-light is impressive. 

vor 20 Minuten schrieb Steven:

But the colours on the sl2s is something I’ve never seen.

Leica DNG color science. Difficult for other manufacturers to match in their RAW files. A few tweaks with the sliders may do, though. 😂

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Slender

Slender

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These are so confusing.... why is APS-C still lesser res than video, what is frame 4 in the left part....aaaaaaah 🤯 same mess for the SL2. Slight crop on the 4K FF then? Or are these images just recycled from SL2 manual 😭.... #4 looks like the 5K mode in SL2....

 

Screen capture from SL2-s manual. I have been impressed by video sample (still a bit of alliasing tho)

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