Light Meter for the M3

[Adrian Lord]

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2 hours ago, Martin B said:

Really? I never got hooked with the sunny 16 rule. It works only well in very limited scenes - on sunny days and when being on a more southern latitude. In Europe and North America it is more like a Sunny 11 rule if this even fits. And it doesn't work well on very contrasty subjects anyway where more accurate metering is absolutely needed. 

The point is you judge the actual lighting and adjust the f stop (or shutter) to take account off the cloud or gloom. You soon get really quite good at it and it becomes instinctual. And as Ko.Fe. says film is very forgiving (apart from transparencies perhaps). As a teen I was a natural but digital put paid to that so am re-learning having gone back to film 100%.

[Michael Geschlecht]

3 hours ago, Ko.Fe. said:

It all comes down to practice. Plus huge exposure latitude of film.

I'm taking pictures with film, no meter cameras, no meter in Canada and USA. It took few years of practice with Sekonic handheld meter and used to be free iPhone app.

In December 2018 I went to Boston and up North with M4-2 and Jupiter-3. No light meter. I took pictures indoors and outdoors at night and during snowy or sunny days. No problems.

If not sure, always "overexpose".

Oh, originally I started to take pictures, while back in Moscow and else, with nothing but FED-2 and ORWO slide film. I knew nothing, zilch, nada about exposure. All I used was S16 print which came with every ORWO roll. It worked.

One hint, if you look at f16 print, it is f16 for lots of Sun. It means Sun, no clouds, open area.

Hello Ko.Fe,

You are a person who is very skilled at what you do.

As such, I think that your Post just above shows how much a person can benefit from a meter so that they might become as adept at determining exposure as well as you do.

For me: Not using a meter is like having a camera that does NOT have the shutter speeds engraved on the shutter speed dial or metering indicators inside the range/viewfinder window. I like having shutter speeds engraved on a shutter speed dial. Just like I like having a light meter suggest a set of exposure options to me.

Best Regards,

Michael

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[Ko.Fe.]

3 minutes ago, Michael Geschlecht said:

Hello Ko.Fe,

You are a person who is very skilled at what you do.

As such, I think that your Post just above shows how much a person can benefit from a meter so that they might become as adept at determining exposure as well as you do.

For me: Not using a meter is like having a camera that does NOT have the shutter speeds engraved on the shutter speed dial or metering indicators inside the range/viewfinder window. I like having shutter speeds engraved on a shutter speed dial. Just like I like having a light meter suggest a set of exposure options to me.

Best Regards,

Michael

No doubt, light meter helps to learn exposure.

Now, do all modes are needed and which one is best to learn?

From my practical experience with film cameras and flashes, only studio, multiple flashes setups needs dedicated flash meter. As I wrote before, for anything else, red engraving on M shutter dial, f8 and almost any film era flash will do.

Which meter is best to learn exposure as something correlated to film ISO, aperture numbers and numbers engraved on M shutter speed dial?

Seconic TwinMate. It has very easy to understand shutter speed and aperture correlated scales. Not just a couple of numbers.

It supports both light metering modes and it is capable with low light, because it has modern light metering.

But the best light meter to learn I ever used was used to be free light meter application for iPhone.

Accurate, spot and wysiwyg. It renders most of dedicated light meters as obsolete, but it is slow to operate.

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Ko.Fe.,

Thank you for your reply.

You are a person with a large accumulation of knowledge & so these things are easier for you.

The 2 meters that I suggested allow a person who is learning to adjust the meter to the task at hand.

They can do shutter speed preferred or aperture preferred exposure determination.

They can do flash determination using the flash as the major light source, or as a complement, or somewhere in between.

They can measure contrast ranges.

And so on.

They can even do precise exposure determinations when using narrow latitude films like the recently introduced Ektachrome which has an exposure latitude of +/- 1/2 of a stop.

And so on.

I have been doing photography since well before anyone from this Planet ever walked on the Moon & I always take a meter with me because I like having all of the exposures on a roll coming out looking like the subject materials did when I was photographing them.

Best Regards,

Michael

Edited March 5, 2019 by Michael Geschlecht

[stvn66]

I need to ask this question which is going to make me seem very stupid, but I need to ask it anyway so I will make it very brief.

I am using the 'Lightmeter' app on my android phone before I buy a proper light meter.

I can use any of the f/stop settings between f1.4 - f/22 and their correlating speed settings depending on what depth of field I require?

Is this correct?

Thank you.

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[Martin B]

4 hours ago, stvn66 said:

I need to ask this question which is going to make me seem very stupid, but I need to ask it anyway so I will make it very brief.

I am using the 'Lightmeter' app on my android phone before I buy a proper light meter.

I can use any of the f/stop settings between f1.4 - f/22 and their correlating speed settings depending on what depth of field I require?

Is this correct?

Thank you.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

That's the app I had been using on my old Android phone when it was still free. Now it is no longer free (I suspect due to high demand!) - at least not for Android systems. As mentioned earlier, it is a bit slow to operate and also doesn't remember some of the settings when you re-open it. It worked fairly accurate for me. 

[Michael Geschlecht]

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Hello Stvn66,

Welcome to the Forum.

Their are no silly or inappropriate questions.

The answer to your appropriate question is: Yes, you can choose from any of the combinations that appear once you have set the dial appropriately.

Best Regards,

Michael

[pico]

5 hours ago, Martin B said:

I can use any of the f/stop settings between f1.4 - f/22 and their correlating speed settings depending on what depth of field I require?

Is this correct? 

Yes, that is correct.

[Ko.Fe.]

On 3/6/2019 at 2:14 AM, stvn66 said:

I need to ask this question which is going to make me seem very stupid, but I need to ask it anyway so I will make it very brief.

I am using the 'Lightmeter' app on my android phone before I buy a proper light meter.

I can use any of the f/stop settings between f1.4 - f/22 and their correlating speed settings depending on what depth of field I require?

Is this correct?

Thank you.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

This one is mocking   Seconic TwinMate. For mobile phone I recommend Light meter app which shows you live image from camera and allows you to put meter spot anywhere on the screen.  This functionality is superior to any handheld meter. IMO. 

And it is proven to be accurate.

[Michael Geschlecht]

16 hours ago, Ko.Fe. said:

This one is mocking   Seconic TwinMate. For mobile phone I recommend Light meter app which shows you live image from camera and allows you to put meter spot anywhere on the screen.  This functionality is superior to any handheld meter. IMO. 

And it is proven to be accurate.

Hello Ko.Fe.,

There are any number of hand held meters that could have done the same thing equally well  50 years ago by simply leaving the camera (Which is apparently on a tripod in your example.) as it is & Simply moving the separate hand held meter: So that the separate meter points to the appropriate spot.

Best Regards,

Michael

 

 

[Ko.Fe.]

On 3/8/2019 at 1:56 PM, Michael Geschlecht said:

Hello Ko.Fe.,

There are any number of hand held meters that could have done the same thing equally well  50 years ago by simply leaving the camera (Which is apparently on a tripod in your example.) as it is & Simply moving the separate hand held meter: So that the separate meter points to the appropriate spot.

Best Regards,

Michael

 

 

 No meter does wysiwyg.

iPhone does. It measures any spot located anywhere on the screen.

Not only measures, but shows how entire frame is going to look like based on selected exposure.

[verwackelt]

I have a leicameter MC on my M3 which works good. The newer MR should work too but needs special battery. The MC needs no battery.
At ebay-Germany or Leica Meister in Hamburg you should get used but working Leicameter…
I like at the Leicameter,  that you can operate shutterspeed and Leicameter with only that one dial together with just one finger.
 

https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/leitz-leica-meter-mr-chrome/1065836601-245-18212

https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/leica-meter-mr-metrawatt-a-g-nuernberg/1060285887-245-9305

https://www.ebay.de/itm/Leitz-Leica-Meter-MC-chrom-Belichtungsmesser/254143812862?epid=1576949414&hash=item3b2c26d4fe:g:U8UAAOSwbMtcUCEq

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Edited March 9, 2019 by verwackelt

[Michael Geschlecht]

22 hours ago, Ko.Fe. said:

 No meter does wysiwyg.

iPhone does. It measures any spot located anywhere on the screen.

Not only measures, but shows how entire frame is going to look like based on selected exposure.

Hello Ko.Fe.,

Different meters use different systems to determine expose. Many of them work reasonably well. This is 1 of the reasons that there are so many nice photos going well back into the 20th Century. Could I ask what it is that we are disagreeing about here?  It seems to me that: Hand held meters of the type that have been around for many years & many  of the modern alternatives: Can both produce good exposures in a variety of situations. 

Best Regards,

Michael

[jmahto]

I got Gossen Digisix2 for my M2. I like it better than iPhone app since I can do i) incident light meter easily and ii) find contrast range in the scene (just move it around and it shows + - EV across the scene). I have even dropped it in a puddle of water once. I fished it out immediately and the display was gone. After few minutes it came back to life and is working fine.  Now I use the lanyard.

I don't like the look of meter attached to M2/M3. If I am not doing Sunny16 then I meter once with my Gossen and put it back in my pocket. No need to keep measuring if light doesn't change.

Edited March 13, 2019 by jmahto

[Adrian Lord]

Leicameters can scratch the top plate.

[AndreasG]

vor 9 Minuten schrieb Adrian Lord:

Leicameters can scratch the top plate.

Just put a small piece of thin adhesive tape on the battery door of the Leicameter (in case it is battery driven), I do this for years.

Edited March 24, 2019 by AndreasG

[verwackelt]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Adrian Lord:

Leicameters can scratch the top plate.

Yes, but i do not care.
Life made wrinkels in my face too… 😉

[Michael Geschlecht]

10 hours ago, Adrian Lord said:

Leicameters can scratch the top plate.

Hello Adrian,

If you look underneath a Leicameter you will see 3 larger screws with heads & 2 smaller screws without heads.

These are for setting each individual Leicameter to a specific Leica M camera (Except to some, ie: M5.).

By adjusting the 5 screws a person can have the meter:

1. Sit above the body of the camera so that the meter does not touch the camera body.

2. Have the pin underneath the meter properly engage the little cut out between the "2" and the "4" (Or "5" on earlier M3's.) so that the pin stays in the slot & does NOT come out when adjusting the shutter speeds between "B" and "1000".

3. For MR & MR4 meters: Having the frame for the 90mm lens correctly show where the meter is pointing when the meter is set at whichever focus point the user chooses. I prefer to set the meter so that when the lens is set at "Infinity": The 90mm frame shows where the meter is pointing. For people who do a lot of portraits it might be better to choose a distance of 2 meters or so. This is a personal decision.

4. For MC meters Doing the above in #3 using the 50mm frame.

5. Also: PLEASE READ THIS: : Remember that the meter frame will ALWAYS be showing the same angle of coverage, regardless of the angle of coverage of the individual lens being used, EXCEPT: When using 35mm lenses with GOGGLES: Use the 135mm frame which will then be displaying the angle of coverage of a 90mm lens. And: Use the 50mm frame when using the 135mm lens with GOGGLES  which will then be displaying (Inexact but close.) the angle of coverage of a 90mm lens.

Best Regards,

Michael
 

Edited March 24, 2019 by Michael Geschlecht

[Adrian Lord]

Thank you Michael, excellent teaching. I never knew that stuff and suspect many others don't either.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[AndreasG]

Michael,

Thank you for sharing this precious know how with us. As far as I remember, it is not mentioned in the manual.