Panasonic S1/S1R Thoughts From SL Owners?

[J12]

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I had a chance to handle the S1 and 50mm F1.4 lens at a trade show recently. The viewfinder is very good and the lens makes a good first impression. I like the fact it has a manual aperture ring on the barrel and wish the Leica lenses for the SL incorporated this. The 50mm F1.4 is also a lens that Panasonic are branding as part of their “Leica Certified” range of premium lenses. While only being able to comment on looking through the viewfinder it did look nice. Bright, clear and very easy to judge focus.

Build quality of the camera is quite plasticy coming from the SL and the liberal smattering of buttons do it no favors either. The materials used to house the lens also don’t match the standards set by Leica’s lenses for the SL. But none of this is really a surprise. Just very noticeable if you switch from one to the other.

I’ve been quite happy with the SL and feel I will be for some time to come. It’s more than enough camera for me. 24 megapixels is fine and I don’t feel stills performance is lacking for my needs.

Video capabilities are the only aspect of the SL that I really feel could benefit from some serious attention. It would be great to see the SL come into its own as a professional video camera. I will put up with the size and weight for that. Have Ms when I want to go lightweight with stills only.

Back to the Panasonic S1, I can only see buying it as a stopgap or temporary backup. The whole nature of it is very consumer orientated. It just looks and feels like a disposable commodity that is intended to be bought and sold with each new upgrade and iteration. I can’t see having the desire to hold on to it once a new version is released.

On the other hand the considered approach to the industrial design of the SL and materials used gives additional value that transcends the latest tech specs. I’d be more tempted to keep the SL and continue using it even as newer cameras come out with better tech specs. It’s functional and a pleasure to use.

These days the majority of digital cameras are incredibly good. When looking back at photos taken 10 years ago with lesser equipment, if it’s a good photo I never feel they’re lacking in any way.

Knowing I’d be buying the Panasonic only to sell it again, I’ll watch for new developments with interest, but will hold back and wait to see what Leica do with the SL. No urgent need to upgrade at present.

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, thighslapper said:

Well I'll certainly give the S1R  a go on day one ...... to see what exceptional Leica optics paired with IBIS, 47mpx and optional LNER produces ...... and a peek at the next SL2 EVF (which it clearly is on the S1R). 

If all is ok and the SL2 appears later with something similar I'll sell the S1R (or my old SL) ....... and upgrade ....... depending on how things turn out. Persisting or not with mandatory LNER will be the main deciding factor ..... 

Nothing compensates for optical excellence, so I'm sticking with Leica. 

47mpx is already twice what I need and gives plenty of leeway with cropping and printing ...... 100mpx for 'normal' photography is I suspect getting into territory where it causes more problems than the non-existent problems it purports to solve .....

MF is nice ..... and tempting ..... but again it comes down to lens variety, quality and compatibility for me...... and with a safe full of SL, TL, M and R lenses it makes no sense. 

Despite all the reviews, opinions and biased crap that appears about any new camera, the acid test is actually spending your own money and then using it daily trying to justify what you have squandered ...... it usually takes me a day to have suspicions ...... a few days to have doubts .... and if I am still using it after a week it is usually a keeper. Otherwise (like the Sony A7) I will have come to loathe it and the Sirens of eBay are calling 'sell me,.... sell me .....'  ....

Wise words, although in my case I'm not willing to spend my own money on S1R on day one, it feels like too much of a gamble (and the hit on resale too much). I'm very interested to see what others think though, if only as a "preview" of SL2!

(Similar thoughts on medium format too ... the X1D is tugging at my heart strings, but the Leica glass I own is, thankfully, enough to prevent me pulling the trigger. The X1D mark II could be interesting though!)

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[ron777]

15 hours ago, Donzo98 said:

So... when is it coming

Beano is an effective Rx for GAS (LOL)

Just saw a brief video in re the S1R on B&H's website that revealed an eyepiece accessory that facilitates viewing for eyeglass wearers.  Hmm, that might be enough to nudge me across and into the Panasonic purchase fray, if it really works as intended.

One has to wonder why Leica has not considered such an accessory, given the noted issue for eyeglass wearers and light intrusion through the rear of the SL's EVF.

I've been a Leica owner and user since the earliest film models, but nowadays they seem happy to remain behind the technological curve.  And now that they've allowed compatibility of their SL lenses with the Panasonic S series cameras, along with their structural similarity to the SL,  are they passing the camera body baton to Panasonic, while abandoning future SL development?  If the Panasonic S1 and S1R bodies are as good as they look on paper, and seamlessly allow use of existing Leica FF glass, where is the impetus to buy an SL2, should it ever become available?   I just don't get Leica's business model.

[ron777]

17 hours ago, jrp said:

Sounds that, with what you already have, if you really need to spend, buy lenses.

Actually, I have all that I require.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, ron777 said:

Just saw a brief video in re the S1R on B&H's website that revealed an eyepiece accessory that facilitates viewing for eyeglass wearers.  Hmm, that might be enough to nudge me across and into the Panasonic purchase fray, if it really works as intended.

Could you link this please? I did see a B&H video which referenced a reversible eyepiece for left eye shooters, but nothing for eyeglass wearers.

[thighslapper]

28 minutes ago, ron777 said:

  I just don't get Leica's business model.

As a small player in a shrinking market R&D costs become a huge risk ..... so pooling resources with the likes of Sigma and Panasonic is the only way to survive. Leica is betting on its brand name and niche market appeal of products which are slightly off the mainstream to keep sales up....... and its partners to help it stay in the game with the latest technology. 

Quite what they will all do when the 'legacy' photographers of my vintage expire, I don't know  .... there is a whole generation for whom a 'camera' means a mobile phone...... or a DJI Pocket  for the more creative ......  and who wouldn't dream of carting around an old fashioned box with bit lenses on the front .........

Edited February 3, 2019 by thighslapper

[BernardC]

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25 minutes ago, ron777 said:

I've been a Leica owner and user since the earliest film models, but nowadays they seem happy to remain behind the technological curve.

While I'm sure that you could point to specific features where you feel that Leica has been "behind the curve," I think that the recent mirrorless releases from Sony (especially the A9), Canon, Nikon and Panasonic show how far ahead of the curve Leica was with the SL. It took those billion-dollar companies nearly four years to catch-up! No-one can accuse Leica of being behind the curve for optics either. They may be slow to release new lenses, but each L-mount lens has pushed the boundaries.

That being said, the Panasonic is the latest-and-greatest this week, just like the Nikon and Canon were last month. Eventually Leica will release a replacement for the SL, and it will be their turn to be latest-and-greatest. I see digital SLRs as 4 or 5-year purchases, so I am not bothered by incremental improvements, but it is certainly compelling to follow the progress of the major players.

[ron777]

54 minutes ago, AndyGarton said:

Could you link this please? I did see a B&H video which referenced a reversible eyepiece for left eye shooters, but nothing for eyeglass wearers.

Hello, it isn't described as a reversible eyepiece but, rather, an add-on accessory.  Here's a link to the video:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/promotion/14889/p-announcement-02012019.html

[ron777]

23 minutes ago, BernardC said:

While I'm sure that you could point to specific features where you feel that Leica has been "behind the curve," I think that the recent mirrorless releases from Sony (especially the A9), Canon, Nikon and Panasonic show how far ahead of the curve Leica was with the SL. It took those billion-dollar companies nearly four years to catch-up! No-one can accuse Leica of being behind the curve for optics either. They may be slow to release new lenses, but each L-mount lens has pushed the boundaries.

That being said, the Panasonic is the latest-and-greatest this week, just like the Nikon and Canon were last month. Eventually Leica will release a replacement for the SL, and it will be their turn to be latest-and-greatest. I see digital SLRs as 4 or 5-year purchases, so I am not bothered by incremental improvements, but it is certainly compelling to follow the progress of the major players.

I was not referring to their lenses, but more specifically to the bodies, and in this instance the SL.  I do own and use the SL, but it clearly lacks many of the features that are readily available on, for example, the Sony A7 series and now the Panasonic.  Many, if not most of these issues could be addressed in software, and as far as it pertains to my own needs Leica has not been responsive to my emailed suggestions or complaints. One simple example is the histogram, it should be optionally available on all screens along with a level and or grid, but it cannot be set that way.  Another is IBIS.  Of course they offer OIS in some lenses, but I've found it to be less effective than IBIS, with the possible exception of long telephotos.  Given the Leica pedigree, I would have expected them to be industry leaders rather than followers.  I'm sure this last statement will set off a flame war, but that is not my intention, as I have clearly stated that despite the aforementioned I have still chosen to own and use the SL, but it is the glass, not the body, that has kept me in the Leica family of users.

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, ron777 said:

Hello, it isn't described as a reversible eyepiece but, rather, an add-on accessory.  Here's a link to the video:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/promotion/14889/p-announcement-02012019.html

Thanks, yes that's the video I'd seen - it's not really something specific to eyepiece wearers, although perhaps it might help a bit (it depends on the size/shape of your glasses).

[ron777]

2 hours ago, AndyGarton said:

Thanks, yes that's the video I'd seen - it's not really something specific to eyepiece wearers, although perhaps it might help a bit (it depends on the size/shape of your glasses).

I have tried a flanged rubber eyecup made for binoculars that fit over the existing SL eyecup that worked well for awhile.  But the rubber became flabby and no longer creates a seal against my glasses, and removing same each time I'm ready to capture an image is not practical.  There are silica gel cups made for this purpose, but they do not seem to be made for Leica.  And while there are quite a few for Canon, I'm not sure the eyecup diameter is compatible.   Light leak has become a big problem for me here in S Florida, and it is for that reason that I'd seized upon the Panasonic accessory.  But in the end, I may have to fashion my own design.

Edited February 3, 2019 by ron777

[laowai_]

5 hours ago, ron777 said:

I just don't get Leica's business model.

Revenue through licensing the L-mount?

 

 

[frame-it]

5 hours ago, BernardC said:

While I'm sure that you could point to specific features where you feel that Leica has been "behind the curve," I think that the recent mirrorless releases from Sony (especially the A9), Canon, Nikon and Panasonic show how far ahead of the curve Leica was with the SL. It took those billion-dollar companies nearly four years to catch-up!

i was so sure the Sony A7R was released before the SL...but perhaps im totally wrong.

[Paul Reading]

I have to say this is the double edged sword for Leica. The Panasonic cameras have now removed any reason to buy the SL. However the Panasonic body matched with Leica glass is going to be a very compelling offer. Many videographers youse the GH5 for video and a different cameras for stills, this camera can truly replace both.

The Panasonic sensor is really going to benefit from Leica glass because the resolution of the Swenson is so high. I really believe that this camera may really have an impact.

[BernardC]

13 hours ago, frame-it said:

i was so sure the Sony A7R was released before the SL...but perhaps im totally wrong.

The A7 is aimed at a different market, with different capabilities. The SL was the first mirrorless with features aimed at professional and near-pro users: real weatherproofing, a large battery, a high-resolution and fast viewfinder, great responsiveness. No doubt the A7 was a landmark camera in its own right (as was the M9), but Sony didn't address that particular market until the A9 came out.

[earleygallery]

13 hours ago, Paul Reading said:

I have to say this is the double edged sword for Leica. The Panasonic cameras have now removed any reason to buy the SL.

See the lengthy thread on the 'Leica look'

OTOH there will always be people who prefer the Leica for whatever reason. The PanaLeica compact cameras demonstrate that.

[ron777]

On 2/3/2019 at 7:16 PM, Paul Reading said:

I have to say this is the double edged sword for Leica. The Panasonic cameras have now removed any reason to buy the SL. However the Panasonic body matched with Leica glass is going to be a very compelling offer. Many videographers youse the GH5 for video and a different cameras for stills, this camera can truly replace both.

The Panasonic sensor is really going to benefit from Leica glass because the resolution of the Swenson is so high. I really believe that this camera may really have an impact.

I have to say that I agree.  And while I like my SL, I am so intrigued by the Panasonic S1R's specs and available video promos, that I have preordered same.  No camera is perfect, and the SL certainly has its quirks, but I don't see Leica responding to user complaints and desires with the same exuberance as other manufacturers.  We, as owner operators, represent a niche class of photographers when compared to the other brands, and I suspect that Leica, aware of this factoid,  has an if you build it they will buy attitude.  I may be off base, and a future SL Mark II may represent the panacea of technological advances, but if past behavior is any indication, I am doubtful.  So, do we need the red dot to acquire superlative images?

[caissa]

I feel sick. 🤢

Edited February 12, 2019 by caissa

[LocalHero1953]

7 hours ago, ron777 said:

I have to say that I agree.  And while I like my SL, I am so intrigued by the Panasonic S1R's specs and available video promos, that I have preordered same.  No camera is perfect, and the SL certainly has its quirks, but I don't see Leica responding to user complaints and desires with the same exuberance as other manufacturers.  We, as owner operators, represent a niche class of photographers when compared to the other brands, and I suspect that Leica, aware of this factoid,  has an if you build it they will buy attitude.  I may be off base, and a future SL Mark II may represent the panacea of technological advances, but if past behavior is any indication, I am doubtful.  So, do we need the red dot to acquire superlative images?

No. But you might need a red dot to enjoy taking superlative images.

I.e. Many photographers buy Leicas because they are better designed for real world use.

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[jaapv]

8 hours ago, caissa said:

I feel sick. 🤢

Why? I don't want to turn this into an armchair CEO thread, but my guess is that Leica saw the expanding of the system as the best way to keep the SL viable. More bodies to sell lenses for, make sure the the SL2 is the premium choice in the system, etc...