Best M portrait lens?

[pgk]

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So permission to post granted (I always ask if I can ) from my friend - another photographer I've known for a long time. So here is my one and only shot from the new-to-me, 'fat' Tele-Elmarit which arrived yesterday, @ 2.8 on the M9,  and whilst chatting about photography over a coffee in a cafe having just been around a photo-gallery. What could be better ?

 

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[Photon42]

Over the years I find I bond with certain lenses but don't with others. For me a modern lens is a wonderful tool also for portraiture work, if you aren't really after a very specific "vintage" look. There are so much post processing options today, that I feel blaming a general purpose portrait lens for being too sharp or too precise does not make sense anymore. 

 

The 1.4/75 has a very thin depth of field allowing (alongside with the general drawing of the lens) for a look you would not find elsewhere. It is however heavy and slow to focus. Catching the moment at 1.4 is really challenging. Two things which really held me off from buying it.

 

For me it seems the 2/75 is the perfect fit. Right size, right weight, focusses down to 70cm, and produces absolutely wonderful images. I like the 75 focal length specifically for indoors, as often you cannot or do not want to increase the distance to the subject.

 

For the reason of ease of focus and size, I also enjoy using the Summarit 90. Only marginally longer than the Summilux 50 ASPH. Wonderful image quality.

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[farnz]

A little off topic perhaps but I strongly dislike the large number of 'one stop shop' portrait photo processing packages that produce over-smooth plastic skin, blindingly white teeth, modified facial features, spaniel eyes, and glistening lips etc.  They suck the realism right out of a picture in my opinion.  I can understand why the advertising industry is drawn to them but I prefer to retain control over my processing choices and produce natural-looking portraits rather than end up with a portfolio of doll-like pictures.

 

The surest way to remove the delicate signature of a lens is to use one of these portrait processing packages in my view.

 

Pete.

[Csacwp]

I shoot both the 75 lux and 90 apo for portraits. They offer different looks depending on who I’m shooting. I used to have a pre-asph 90mm (the Mandler cron) but didn’t like it’s color rendition. The Apo 90mm is an early Apo design and isn’t bitingly sharp wide open- in fact, it’s somewhat similar to the 75 lux at f/2 and only becomes very sharp at f/4. The colors are lovely and the bokeh is very serene. While it isn’t quite as smooth as the pre-asph, it maintains the overall structures of background objects, adding context (and making it a good photojournalism lens). Stopped down, it is a monster landscape lens with a unique rendering.

 

The 75 lux is a calm, dreamy lens... just gorgeous.

[phongph]

I shoot both the 75 lux and 90 apo for portraits. They offer different looks depending on who I’m shooting. I used to have a pre-asph 90mm (the Mandler cron) but didn’t like it’s color rendition. The Apo 90mm is an early Apo design and isn’t bitingly sharp wide open- in fact, it’s somewhat similar to the 75 lux at f/2 and only becomes very sharp at f/4. The colors are lovely and the bokeh is very serene. While it isn’t quite as smooth as the pre-asph, it maintains the overall structures of background objects, adding context (and making it a good photojournalism lens). Stopped down, it is a monster landscape lens with a unique rendering.

The 75 lux is a calm, dreamy lens... just gorgeous.

+1!

Thanks!

[lct]

[...] The Apo 90mm is an early Apo design and isn’t bitingly sharp wide open- in fact, it’s somewhat similar to the 75 lux at f/2 and only becomes very sharp at f/4. [...]

 

Interesting indeed. I have not the same feeling at all. My 90/2 apo is sharp at all apertures including f/2, in the center of the frame at least. Typical Karbe lens to me as opposed to the Mandler's 75/1.4. I would compare the latter's rendering to Summicron 90/2 v2 or v3 or R 90/2 pre-apo personally. I like them all but those are not the same beasts to me. YMMV.

[farnz]

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My 90/2 APO Summicron asph was bitingly sharp wide open except approaching close focus distance when it became a little softer.

 

Pete.

[Csacwp]

Interesting, mine isn’t that sharp wide open, though it does perform better away from close-focus distance. Or maybe my 75 lux is abnormally sharp?

 

I thought the 90 apo wasn’t a Karbe lens...

Edited January 20, 2018 by Csacwp

[farnz]

I'm fairly sure the 90 APO is a Karbe lens - it certainly has his modern optical 'signature'.  Over the years a number of people on this forum have noted the 90 APO's performance drop wide open at close focus and I understand that it's the result of not having a floating lens element/group.  I believe the 50/1.4 Summilux asph was the first to have a FLE and was released in 2004.  The 90 APO was released in 1998 so it was perhaps too early to have had one as part of its design.

 

Pete.

[Narsuitus]

In your opinion, of the lenses I listed above - which is the best for portraits?

 

Of the lenses you listed, I cannot tell you which is the best for portraits. However, I can tell you that the one I use is the 90mm f/2. I did not buy it for a portrait lens but for a photo journalist lens. I can, however, use it as a portrait lens but I find it lacking in close focusing. For example, last night I was using it in a restaurant but was too close to the subject sitting across the table from me to obtain sharp focus.

[Keith_W]

Think would be nice to hear what defines a good portrait lens. Not a subject I do, but would love to learn.

 

I was hoping that some others would chime in on this. Nobody has (and it might help others make suggestions that might help ME). So - in MY opinion only, this is what I look for in a portrait lens: 

 

- I subscribe to the old rule, which is - 85mm and up for head shots, 50mm for head upper torso, 35mm for full body. The reason for these classic focal lengths is to avoid distorting features. I already have a 28 and 50mm lens, so I am after a short to medium tele. 

- It should be excellent at subject isolation, meaning it has to be fast. 

- It should have enough DOF to keep the whole face in focus whilst still maintaining subject isolation. 

- Sharpness is a matter of taste, some like it sharp, some don't. Depends on what you are shooting. I read an article once about a successful portrait photographer. When he was asked what his secret was, he said "1/15 second". 

 

Incidentally this is a picture of my wife from my Canon days. 50/1.2L + flash + 1/10 shutter speed + 1/50s + deliberately shake camera during exposure. 

 

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[JCR33]

 

Of the lenses you listed, I cannot tell you which is the best for portraits. However, I can tell you that the one I use is the 90mm f/2. I did not buy it for a portrait lens but for a photo journalist lens. I can, however, use it as a portrait lens but I find it lacking in close focusing. For example, last night I was using it in a restaurant but was too close to the subject sitting across the table from me to obtain sharp focus.

 

 

I use 90mm f/2 + Novoflex LEM/VIS II adaptor if I need to do close focusing.

 

[Mute-on]

So permission to post granted (I always ask if I can ) from my friend - another photographer I've known for a long time. So here is my one and only shot from the new-to-me, 'fat' Tele-Elmarit which arrived yesterday, @ 2.8 on the M9,  and whilst chatting about photography over a coffee in a cafe having just been around a photo-gallery. What could be better ?

 

GST B&W s © Paul Kay.jpg

Nothing

 

Must take my chrome ‘fat’ T-E out for a spin. I think I’ve seriously overlooked it of late.

 

J

[geetee1972]

 

Think would be nice to hear what defines a good portrait lens.

 

It would be more productive to talk about what makes a good portrait. The lens that made it is utterly irrelevant.

[pgk]

It would be more productive to talk about what makes a good portrait. The lens that made it is utterly irrelevant.

 

Not utterly irrelevant  . We do have to use a lens and choosing that lens can be highly relevant to whether the portrait is good/great/whatever. Generally speaking a slightly longer than normal focal length has been considered to be more 'flattering' for facial perspective and ignoring collective 'wisdom' like this is fine, if the reasoning is valid and a less 'conventional' approach deemed better. I've seen 'good' portraits taken using a huge variety of focal lengths but the majority have still been shot on short tele-lenses nevertheless.

Edited January 21, 2018 by pgk

[Csacwp]

I'm fairly sure the 90 APO is a Karbe lens - it certainly has his modern optical 'signature'. Over the years a number of people on this forum have noted the 90 APO's performance drop wide open at close focus and I understand that it's the result of not having a floating lens element/group. I believe the 50/1.4 Summilux asph was the first to have a FLE and was released in 2004. The 90 APO was released in 1998 so it was perhaps too early to have had one as part of its design.

 

Pete.

Nope, the 90 Apo was designed by Lothar Kölsch. It doesn’t strike me as a Karbe design... the bokeh has more character, and while the lens is very sharp wide open, it doesn’t have the Karbe microcontrast.

[pgk]

The 90 Apo brochure does not show the rear group to be of 'floating' design, so I assume that it is not an FLE lens because I am sure that Leica would promote this if it was - perhaps an update may rectify this although I doubt that it will make any really significant difference.

Edited January 21, 2018 by pgk

[lct]

Nope, the 90 Apo was designed by Lothar Kölsch. It doesn’t strike me as a Karbe design... the bokeh has more character, and while the lens is very sharp wide open, it doesn’t have the Karbe microcontrast.

 

Interesting i did not know about the author of this lens but it has a typical Karbe-like IQ to me. Bitingly sharp at f/2, in the centre at least. The last 90 i would use to shoot my mother in law . Just kidding but i have no problem with 75/1.4 or 90/2 v2 or v3 lenses to shoot less than perfect skins w/o spending hours in PP. Same with more affordable lenses like Elmarit 90/2.8 v1 or my favorite Sonnar 50/1.5 on crop cameras. FWIW.

Edited January 21, 2018 by lct

[michaelwj]

I'm fairly sure the 90 APO is a Karbe lens - it certainly has his modern optical 'signature'. Over the years a number of people on this forum have noted the 90 APO's performance drop wide open at close focus and I understand that it's the result of not having a floating lens element/group. I believe the 50/1.4 Summilux asph was the first to have a FLE and was released in 2004. The 90 APO was released in 1998 so it was perhaps too early to have had one as part of its design.

 

Pete.

Karbe took over as chief optical designer in 2002. I'm not sure what he did before that though I believe he was at Leica (he holds patents pre 2002 with Leica employees). So while he did not oversee the 90mm APO, he might have been around during its development.

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[dunhoy]

I have a Summicron 75 (currently in Germany to have a back focus issue resolved) and an Elmarit-M 2.8/90mm (11807) - both are pretty damn good !!!