How effective are Leica's slide-out hoods?

[Soden]

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I am curious about different peoples opinion about how effective are Leica's slide-out hoods. I have seen conflicting posts for some time. As an example one person thinks the 75mm APO-Summicron is optically an excellent lens, except the lens hood is ineffective so the lens is a poor design. Another thinks the lens hood on the same lens is just fine. I know I am talking about a variety of lenses over several generations. But I have a variety of lenses from several generations.

 

In some cases I have purchased additional hoods from third parties, such as from Mr. Overgaard, and some I have come to hate, like the plastic hood on the last version of the 50mm Noctilux f/1. One of the lenses I am most curious is the 50mm APO-Summicron, but I would like to ask about others as well...

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[LocalHero1953]

Difficult to answer unless you're the sort of person who enjoys doing tests. The less than scientific analysis for most people is:

- if it flares with the hood on = the hood is poor

- if it doesn't flare with the hood on = the hood is wonderful

So it's not surprising there are mixed views

[Dan Bachmann]

I'm a fan of the slide outs on my 50mm Summilux and 90mm - it was a reason I went for the 90mm Elmarit M over a Summarit. They block enough light for me outdoors and also the rain from the front element.

 

On a 50mm Summicron, the story is different as that lens is more prone to flare than the Summilux.

 

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[adan]

The short answer: every little bit helps. If you can find a long add-on hood that just barely does not vignette (intrude into the lens' field of view), then that will be more effective than a shorter hood. And Leica's built-in M hoods tend to be rather short, due to the constraints of lens size. I have a 1980 90mm Summicron with a shade a bit longer than the Leica M norm, because when retracted it covers the aperture ring, adding a few mm to the available length, compared to the later 90 f/2 slide-out hoods.

 

The long answer:

 

Let's be clear - ALL lens hoods are compromises.

 

The only almost-but-still-not-quite-perfect lens hood design is the one they use in Hollywood, where the hood is shaped to the final image rectangle, and can be adjusted per shot with a bellows or mask to "crop" the world to only that light that will actually land on the sensor or film. Because ANY light that gets past the front element of the lens may cause flare, reflecting off any part of the inside of the lens and camera - glass, inside surface of the lens tube, the inside of the shutter chamber.

 

http://nofilmschool.com/sites/default/files/styles/facebook/public/uploads/2011/11/cinebox05_large.jpg?itok=l6wZ4NZK

 

Hasselblad made an adjustable bellows shade for their lenses: http://www.pisconeri.com/ForSale/2014/photos/PS_ForSale13_2031.jpg

 

As do large-format camera makers: http://www.ground-glass.net/images/toyo-view-lenshood-old.jpg

 

Still not perfect, because your lens does not have an infinitely small diameter, and therefore a hood that shades the top of the first lens element from an overhead light source may intrude into the picture if it also shades the bottom of the lens opening. To prevent the shade getting into the picture, there has to be a bit of leakage. But they are perhaps 99% effective.

 

But obviously those are designed for studio/static shooting, where you have time (a motionless subject) to adjust them, and space (to deal with an object larger than an M camera itself). And for perfectionists, they do need to be adjusted for every shot, since the lens' field of view (and thus the exact best hood opening) changes with focus - focused closer, the lens FoV gets a tad smaller,  and the hood can be adjusted longer to a nice tight-but-not-vignetting fit to the image edges.

 

Compromises needed for Leica M shades in active shooting:

 

- size (diameter and length). Which must fit within the lens structure for built-ins, minimize viewfinder blockage with any type, and simply not be detrimental to the "compact camera" Leica M ethos.

- shape - simple tubular hoods are/were cheaper to make, especially in metal. But a round hood for a rectangular picture area will always leak substantially at the top, bottom and sides. In this image, see the arcs of blue outside the picture area? That's light a round hood will allow to leak into your camera, without any benefit to the picture: http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/tutorials/cropped_sensor_view/image_circle.jpg

 

Leica has been making rectangular hoods that fit the Barnack format, going back at least as far as 1939:

 

XIOOM for 50mm Xenon/Summarit (1939): https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1245/2879/products/4_c206fa6e-f79d-47c4-893c-65e4ca61d429_large.jpg?v=1461904281

SOOBK for 28mm Summaron (1960): http://www.chapterlux.com/wp-content/uploads/16070035I-004-940x730.jpg

 

...but they ain't small, or cheap. And they do have to be correctly aligned on the camera, to avoid vignetting corners.

 

Recently, of course, Leica has revamped a lot of their wide-angle shades for the retangular shape, with a locking thread for perfect alignment. But not for longer lenses (probably to prevent excessive finder blockage). The v.2 Noctilux f/1 had a slide-out kind-sorta square shade - barely more effective than a simple round hood. The add-on bayonet hood for the V.1 blocked a lot more light: https://matthewosbornephotography.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/noctilux-f1-0.png?w=640

 

- cost. Not perhaps a huge issue for Leica, but it costs more to machine a hood with a round thread morphing to a rectangular front, than making a simple round tube and threading the back end. Molding plastic hoods has made complex shapes easier - note the "tulip blossom" hoods that are now the norm for most SLR lenses, introduced with the Nikkor 16mm full-frame fisheye in the 1960s, and the 13mm Nikkor in the 1980s, which approximate a rectangular opening with a simple round tube. (and also provide protection for the mountainous front elements).

 

http://www.kenrockwell.com/canon/lenses/images/11-24mm/D3S_2122-compared-to-Nikon-13mm.jpg

 

Physical protection from impact or the weather is, of course, another function of lens hoods. Longer is better for keeping snow off your lens, but even the vestigial built-in shades help. But if you dent an add-on shade, you take it off and put on another. If you dent a built-in shade, the whole lens has to go in for replacement.

[pgk]

Slide out hoods are a compromise between effectiveness and practicality. The 75 Summicron is an interesting example because it is a lens which can flare easily at times so it really should have an efficient hood. On the other hand such a hood would need to be differently designed to be efficient and would probably not be able to slide in or out. So it would make the lens bigger/bulkier and would probably need to be removed for storage so users might forget to put it back on. I have this lens and am thinking about buying an aftermarket hood which is far bigger because the built in one is irritatingly inefficient at times. The real solution would be to redesign a less flare prone lens ......

Edited April 9, 2017 by pgk

[JohnnySeven]

The "foreskin" hoods are not the best. I'd rather have a removable one.  I just leave my removable hood on all the time. The built in hoods are always in the wrong position at any given time.

[Jewl]

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Besides of flaring, how effective are the new slide-out hoods in terms of protecting the lens? My 35 Lux FLE seems to quite well protected if you bump into sth. whereas I have concerns that the new hoods might get damaged (eg cross-threaded if you bump into sth while slid out)? They still feel robust when slid out but no real life examples yet. 

[pedaes]

2 hours ago, Jewl said:

(eg cross-threaded if you bump into sth while slid out)? They still feel robust when slid out but no real life examples yet. 

There are options. You can buy one of Thorsten O's lens hood, or if you want cheap there are vented hoods on eBay for around £/$/€ 10 shipped.

https://www.overgaard.dk/Thorsten-von-Overgaard-Gallery-Store-Hardware-for-Photography-E46-46mm-Ventilated-Lens-Shade-for-E46mm-Leica-50mm-Summilux-ASPH-Leica-35mm-Summilux-Double-Aspherical-AA-f14-Leica-35mmSummilux-28mm-Summicron-M-ASPH.html

[Danner]

I've had the best results with Leica's rectangular, snap-on, plastic hoods (28 and 35mm lenses).  Not a fan of the metal slide-out hoods, such as the V5 50mm Summicron hood.

Edited December 1, 2024 by Danner

[T I N O]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Danner:

Not a fan of the metal slide-out hoods

..why, if I may ask?

[Anbaric]

My 'favourite' slide-out hood is the one on the E49 Summicron 90. Leica 'encourage' use of the hood by having it neatly cover the aperture ring unless you slide it out...

[Danner]

1 hour ago, T I N O said:

..why, if I may ask?

The slide-out hoods don't provide as much shading of the front element as the plastic snap-on hoods, and, the slide-out hoods tends to work itself back toward the collapsed position during use, which reduces the shading.  Furthermore, the plastic hoods provided a bumper to protect the lens (and camera) during handling, whereas the metal hoods tend to be damaged, which is particularly true of the current range of twist-on metal hoods (although I digress on this point).

[Robert Blanko]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb Jewl:

Besides of flaring, how effective are the new slide-out hoods in terms of protecting the lens? My 35 Lux FLE seems to quite well protected if you bump into sth. whereas I have concerns that the new hoods might get damaged (eg cross-threaded if you bump into sth while slid out)? They still feel robust when slid out but no real life examples yet. 

This strongly depends on which lens you are talking about:  Some of the lens hoods just slide out and cannot be locked (e.g., 90 APO, 135 APO). Some turn and slide (e.g. 50 APO and maybe 75 APO) and cannot be simply pushed back.

[KFo]

I have noticed the slide out hood on my 50 summicron will slowly retract during session of shooting and moving around the city.  On the 28 summicron it has a bit of a cam to it and doesn't move unexpectedly for me. I do like the built-in slide out hoods because they are always available if the conditions warrant.  As adan points out though they are a compromise in terms of coverage.  I did ding the hood on the 50 but not hard enough to have an issue.

I also have an earlier 28  summicron with the plastic clip on hood that I dislike - more finder blockage.

I like the thread on square hoods best like the 28 elmarit, recent 35 summicron, and summilux.  Although most have some finder blockage if that is problem for you.

I don't shot the  Leica in the rain so can't comment in those regards.  I do also regard the hoods a minor bump guard as well although I seem to bump  them more with the guard on than a naked lens.🤷🏻‍♂️

Edited December 1, 2024 by KFo

[T I N O]

Thanks for your elaborations @Danner (and also @Robert Blanko and @KFo).

I was wondering which of the lenses' hoods actually just slide / pull out, and which rather "twist" out (and whether they kinda "lock", or if they get pushed back in very easily).

Somebody else mentioned the other day that he felt the hood / lens doesn't really "like" being stashed in a bag repeatedly with the hood extended (which is what they were doing usually when it was clear they would use the camera again soon after - and which is how I handled hoods on lenses all my life, basically - always on).

[Jewl]

I am specifically talking about the latest 28mm summicron - I believe it has the same hood as the latest 35mm lux and 50mm lux… but yes, feels quite robust and cannot be easily pushed back like the 50mm v5 as it can be locked by turning it. 

[Robert Blanko]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb T I N O:

Thanks for your elaborations @Danner (and also @Robert Blanko and @KFo).

I was wondering which of the lenses' hoods actually just slide / pull out, and which rather "twist" out (and whether they kinda "lock", or if they get pushed back in very easily).

Somebody else mentioned the other day that he felt the hood / lens doesn't really "like" being stashed in a bag repeatedly with the hood extended (which is what they were doing usually when it was clear they would use the camera again soon after - and which is how I handled hoods on lenses all my life, basically - always on).

Storing with the hood extended once caused an issue with my 50 APO: The camera which was inside a neoprene cover slipped off my shoulder when leaning forward to pack a backpack and hit the ground, falling about 50 cm. This resulted in the extended hood tilted, so that it did not move anymore and had to be repaired. Since then, I always retract the hood and use the metal lens cap when storing.

[IMAGEPOWER]

Actually, the hood of the APO 75M is not very effective and I would like to show an example with the hood applied. You have to look closely at the right frame of the photo to detect the flare. I provided another version of the photo deliberately overexposed as well. On the other hand, if you want to keep the size of the M lenses small you will have to apply lens hoods that are tight to the front lens and thus short. To be honest the coating of Leica M lenses is not up to industry standards when compared to Canon or Nikon (I use approximately 5 Nikkors daily in harsh flood light with no problems at all. There AF problems (not enough contrast) led to new ways of coatings that effectively reduce ghosting). I do hope my English is not too bad so you understand what I am trying to say...

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Edited December 2, 2024 by IMAGEPOWER

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[IMAGEPOWER]

Here is the second photo, look at the right frame. There was a strong light source right of the wheel. The camera was the M11 on a tripod exposed for 2 seconds f/5.6

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Edited December 2, 2024 by IMAGEPOWER