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New Leica M 240 follow-up in 2017 : The speculations.

Paulus

By Paulus
in Leica M (Type 240 / 262)

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jaapv
jaapv

Hasselblad is a medium format camera. The problems with high MP sensors handheld have to do with pixel size, not directly with pixel number. A medium format sensor can hold a larger number of pixels

Tailwagger
Tailwagger

First, welcome!    From my own perspective, I'm not sure by any reasonable measure that they are not already there with the 240 and its siblings.  A brief scan of this forum would yield dozens upon

TRIago
TRIago

My M9 is 100% no regrets purchase. I will use the camera as much as I can and I've got no plans for selling it or buying another one. And I'm not alone for sure.     Sent from my iPhone using Tapat

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Paul J

Paul J

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My feelings about pixel count aside, if this new camera has no video, the same old sensor as the Q, it will be a great disappointment.

 

A new M should be, in my opinion (or just dreams perhaps) pushing things further. It should be the M that gets the new sensor, and then the other models follow. This to me just says Leica has no more interest in championing its defining model and it will just be incrementally upgraded depending on what their other cameras have. If these new specs are true then it really looks to me like the writing on the wall for the future of the M.

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IkarusJohn

IkarusJohn

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... If these new specs are true then it really looks to me like the writing on the wall for the future of the M.

It isn't a zero-sum game. The M camera almost certainly seems to have saved the company, and Leica is committed to the M system, but it doesn't follow that it should be the best, or get the best, or that Leica's entire future should be "championed" by a system defined 60 years ago - remember, there are many here who say M means messucher (including Leica). Pretty limiting future.

 

If your concern is which camera will be the test bed for new technologies, I'd have to say it's the SL as it isn't limited by the M's legacy issues. I'm not saying this is a bad thing for the M; I'm quite sure that Leica will continue to make it the best camera they can, but it seems to have hit a bit of a glass ceiling. It's going to have to move away from some traditional assumptions about the M system - it has already done so with the M(240) with live view, video and the EVF. Interesting that it has backed off with the variant models ...

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jaapv

jaapv

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My feelings about pixel count aside, if this new camera has no video, the same old sensor as the Q, it will be a great disappointment.

 

A new M should be, in my opinion (or just dreams perhaps) pushing things further. It should be the M that gets the new sensor, and then the other models follow. This to me just says Leica has no more interest in championing its defining model and it will just be incrementally upgraded depending on what their other cameras have. If these new specs are true then it really looks to me like the writing on the wall for the future of the M.

I fear that you are right. A dumbed-down M would not be attractive to those customers that embrace the system as a preferred tool to get images in many conditions. I fully accept that M7 size (still too large IMO, it should be M3, or even better III f) and a lack of present-day conveniences like LV, EVF and Video will attract a certain group of aficionados, but people like me ( and you it appears) are mostly interested in carrying the system forward into the present and even future. If truth be be told, I would not have upgraded to the M(typ240) from my M9 if it would not have had the EVF. I had a discussion about that with Stephan Daniel before the 240 was announced and he kind of apologized ( ;)) that it would not be available before I went on one of my silly trips. I am happy with extending the usability of the M system, if only if it reduces the weight I have to carry by eliminating some specialized camera bodies.

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Rick

Rick

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There would be no reason for Leica to not include video.  If, there is LV and an EVF it would be silly to not allow the LV stream to be recorded.  Now that would be a bridge to far and would prove Leica is just pandering to the "purest" crowd that doesn't even want a rear LCD!

 

It makes no sense to me to deactivate features like video and the rear screen.  Personally, I think Leica's M-D should have included the rear screen but just permanently deactivated it in the software!  Same as they did with the view button.  Just left it on the camera but, deactivated it.  Then, those that bought the M-D could be reminded just how stupid it is every time they looked at the screen that wouldn't work and the video button that is sitting on the top deck reminding them the camera has features deactivated!

 

I can't imagine Leica deactivating video.  I am looking forward to video with a decent EVF sans the rolling shutter of the M240.

 

Rick

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jmahto

jmahto

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I fear that you are right. A dumbed-down M would not be attractive to those customers that embrace the system as a preferred tool to get images in many conditions. I fully accept that M7 size (still too large IMO, it should be M3, or even better III f) and a lack of present-day conveniences like LV, EVF and Video will attract a certain group of aficionados, but people like me ( and you it appears) are mostly interested in carrying the system forward into the present and even future. If truth be be told, I would not have upgraded to the M(typ240) from my M9 if it would not have had the EVF. I had a discussion about that with Stephan Daniel before the 240 was announced and he kind of apologized ( ;)) that it would not be available before I went on one of my silly trips. I am happy with extending the usability of the M system, if only if it reduces the weight I have to carry by eliminating some specialized camera bodies.

+1

 

In fact when I bought M9 (my first M) then I was not even aware that I won't be able to focus my old manual focus lenses (I have bunch of Konica Hexanons). In fact my 50 lux came much later and for two weeks I was shooting my M9 with my Konica hexanon (by guessing distance) ... and I got some nice keeprs as well. :)

 

To me M240 was a complete (almost) system. The only thing lacking is speed while using EVF and tele lens for which I use Sony Nex-6 right now. If M's EVF improves then my Sony will be history.

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Rick

Rick

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I'm looking forward to a new toy.  But, if Leica rumor is correct and it is a 24mp from the SL/Q and there is no video then there would be no reason to upgrade (down grade).  Also, they list 5fps and that is much too slow!  What?

 

I can't imagine any of this makes sense.  It has a Maestro II processor.  It better be able to do 11-12fps or the live view is crippled.

 

I can honestly say this would not be enough to get me to buy a new toy.  My M240 is a wonderful camera and as I've said before, this buy would purely be a bobble or new shinny for me.  It has to offer something a little more than being just smaller.

 

Sorry,

 

Rick

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IkarusJohn

IkarusJohn

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No, not terrible news, but I am not going to replace a camera that I am happy with by a camera that lacks a feature that I use.

Very sensible. Why replace a camera that meets your needs and (apparently) functions perfectly.

 

...If truth be be told, I would not have upgraded to the M(typ240) from my M9 if it would not have had the EVF.

Interesting that video is a deal breaker for you in the M(240), but the M9 didn't have video ...

 

The M camera is, apparently, all about messucher. No messucher, no M camera. No video, no messucher camera for Jaap. It's a "deal breaker".

 

Funny expression that, most commonly used (from my recollection) in the testosterone driven, chest beating days of commercial negotiation - all about posturing and one-upmanship. These days, when negotiating, we're far more focussed on achieving what we can for our clients - lines in the sand very rarely achieve that. What successful negotiators tend to do is to look at what's possible - telling Leica a feature or lack of it is a "deal breaker" won't have the slightest effect, save you won't get the new camera. That may or may not be your loss, but I sorely doubt that Leica will notice.

 

Conversely, I will look at the new camera and think about what it can do, what it's good for, and I will (I suspect) be perfectly happy with what I have - not because of something the new camera does or does not offer, but because my existing cameras do more than I need. That and I have decided not to feed the beast ...

Edited by IkarusJohn
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keithlaban.co.uk

keithlaban.co.uk

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How big is that? About the size of a Mamiya 6?

Oh, it looks like it's a little bigger than a Panasonic GH4

Pete

 

http://camerasize.com/compare/#641,678

 

Surprisingly little difference considering the X1D is a medium format camera.

 

Come on Leica, if Hasselblad can do this with medium format I'm damned sure given your expertise in compact design you can do it with an EVF based 36x24 AF system.

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keithlaban.co.uk

keithlaban.co.uk

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Started shipping December 12.  LuLa will have a review any day now.

 

Jeff

 

I spent much of my career with Hasselblad cameras in hand mounted on a tripod but switched to Leica for their compact hand holding qualities.

 

What sweet irony then that I may return to the fold for those same compact hand holding qualities...

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jmahto

jmahto

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Posted (edited)

We mix LV and video. I don't care much about video (I have iPhone for that) but no LV is deal breaker for me. I need to be able to use long lens and do macro time to time without using any other camera in a small/light package. I am not asking for lightning fast AF tracking camera for sports and birding. Even SL doesn't go there (yet).

 

(In last two years of ownership, I recall taking video only 4 or 5 times. And iPhone would have been sufficient in all those cases).

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