New Leica SL Lenses & Roadmap!

[thighslapper]

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Daryl ...... you are arguing against the force of optics, physics and mechanics. 

 

You cannot make lenses of this aperture and optical quality with AF below a certain physical size for a 35mm sensor. 

 

There is a long discussion on IBIS on the CL forum. If Leica wanted to do it they would have done it. 

 

They have chosen lens based OIS for those lenses where THEY feel it is necessary .... and 'necessary' is the important word as far as Leica philosophy is concerned. 

[Andrew Gough]

Wow, first we have whining about lens availability, and when they finally announce its “too heavy”, “no ibis”, etc... poor Leica can’t win.

 

I for one am excited about the 90mm. It’ll blow away any Sony, I have shot 90mm lenses without ibis for 25years. Use a monopod, or buy a Sony if it’s a deal breaker.

 

The 35 and the 50apo are welcome additions, and I am patiently waiting for the 16-35mm. In the meantime, the SL 50 Summilux is spectacularly beautiful. The 90mm will be a level above the current APO m lens.

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[hillavoider]

new lenses look like the perfect size to me in this video at 30 seconds....I want one, or 2 

 

http://blog.leica-camera.com/2018/01/15/Arndt/

Edited January 16, 2018 by hillavoider

[hillavoider]

speaking of AF speed..the SL 50 summilux price in HK has gone down to 3900$ within this week

 

could you point me in the direction of such stores, would be much appreciated  

[IkarusJohn]

Cheapest I can find (new) is $4,300

[darylgo]

With all due respect, this is definitely not the case. Please talk to Mr. Karbe - the SL-Lenses represent a totally new level of optical performance (e.g they are designed to resolve more than 60 lp/mm).

Oh, if only I could talk to Mr. Karbe, I haven't tried contacting him, thinking he is too busy to talk to me, but if you could arrange this I would be most grateful :-).  The only published results I've seen at 60l/mm are from Lens Rentals and Roger Cicala.  His blog is most informative: https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/

Lens manufacturer can state their lenses resolve at higher frequency, the missing information is the level of performance.   The mtf curves I see at 40l/mm suffice for the sensors we have today.  

Edited January 16, 2018 by darylgo

[IkarusJohn]

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I tend not to read mtf charts or line per mm results as they seem barely reliable. More critically, have you seen any test at all whic rates the performance of an SL lens worse than the equivalent M lens?

[darylgo]

I tend not to read mtf charts or line per mm results as they seem barely reliable. More critically, have you seen any test at all whic rates the performance of an SL lens worse than the equivalent M lens?

John, I find the Leica mtf curves the best published of all  manufacturers, extremely useful.  When I get a poor lens sample it reveals itself quite readily when compared to its published image quality graphs (mtf).  And, yes, iirc there appears to be a fair amount of astigmatism in the SL 75mm Apo, the corners suffer a bit.   

[IkarusJohn]

Hi Daryl,

 

Sorry for not making myself clear. If we accept lpmm and mtf as a measure, is there anything to suggest in your mind that the SL lenses are not as good as Leica claim, compared to the M lenses?

 

The reason I put it this way is Leica have apparently accepted an increase in size for AF, weathersealing and improved performance. At some focal lengths, I agree that the zooms may be out performed by their M primes at equivalent focal length, but generally not. Certainly the one prime we have does seem to be the best 50 Leica produces. Some say the APO Summicron 50 is better, but that seems marginal.

 

My observation is that the SL50 is certainly “better” than the other 50s I own, but then I don’t go looking for problems.

 

John

[geetee1972]

 

Sorry for not making myself clear. If we accept lpmm and mtf as a measure, is there anything to suggest in your mind that the SL lenses are not as good as Leica claim, compared to the M lenses?

 

90% of shared images taken with them are gash?

 

I'm just sayin........

[scott kirkpatrick]

I just finished looking over the MTFs in the just released technical data sheets for the 75 and 90 SL Summicrons and they are incredible.  The 90 shows flat resolution at very high contrast levels for all four spatial frequencies and all apertures, at infinity and close up (one meter).  The 75 has a few wiggles at the edges at f/2.0 but they are gone from f/2.8 and the rest of the charts are just as precise as with the 90.  The 50 Summilux SL is more flamboyant, with a rendering that is sharp on center at f/1.4, with the high frequency response falling off away from center, yet it  sharpens by f/5.6 to the same levels and uniformity seen in the new Summicrons.  It looks like the same difference in design philosophy seen in the M's latest Summilux 50 and APO Summicron 50.  So there is a case to be made for having two 50s for the SL, just as there are two 50s for the M.

 

Two thing that are called out as innovations for the new SL SC's get some detail in the lens blog page on the Leica-camera website.  Apparently the autofocus moving units in the SX 50 SL were a rigid group of three lenses, one of them a bit thick-looking.  The new designs focus by moving two fairly thin lenses and leaving two heavier lens elements fixed between the two that move.  And they claim that taking multiple samples with the contrast-detect firmware as the lenses start to move will determine the direction and distance of movement required, just as phase detect AF does with a single measurement.  So the claim is light moving parts, smarter firmware, and two powerful stepper motors.  This should make a difference, but we'll see.  So far all Leica AF lenses that I have used on the SL and CL are capable of charging off in the wrong direction on occasion, and only reverse when I press for focus again.  We'll see if this has really changed.

 

There is also a short paragraph on the website describing how the focus to out-of-focus transitions are much sharper in the new lenses as a consequence new and different out-of-focal plane behavior.  It will be interesting to look for this.  If the explanation is not exaggerating, this should be apparent.

Edited January 16, 2018 by scott kirkpatrick

[IkarusJohn]

90% of shared images taken with them are gash?

 

I'm just sayin........

 

That is another issue altogether 

 

I don't know if you've tried the 50 SL, Greg.  I'm coming to grips with mine. I think it would work really well for your portraiture ...

[mgrayson3]

90% of shared images taken with them are gash?

 

I'm just sayin........

 

True of all new lenses and cameras.

[geetee1972]

That is another issue altogether 

 

I don't know if you've tried the 50 SL, Greg.  I'm coming to grips with mine. I think it would work really well for your portraiture ...

 

There's a chap I've found called Peter Christopher who is using one and producing very lovely results with it that I've been following. I'm sort of convinced now that the lens isn't quite as gash as I've become known for suggesting.

 

The problem still remains the size and cost but the real irony is that I actually prefer to manually focus rather than rely on AF. It's odd I know but manually focusing works well for me, I guess becuase it slows me down and makes me think more especially when I'm shooting portraits. If you're prepared to stick with manual focusing all the time the Summilux-M is more versatile. It's relatively small, can be zone focused for street use (which the 50SL can't) and is just as good in terms of the results at least in terms of the results I need.

[IkarusJohn]

I have never got along with AF, I don't know why.  I have the SL set for manual focus, and press the AF button, then fine tune.

[geetee1972]

I have never got along with AF, I don't know why.  I have the SL set for manual focus, and press the AF button, then fine tune.

Wow!   What was the compelling motivation to buy one then? I'm not judging at this point - I sort of grudgingly acknowledge I was likely wrong to judge the lens harshly and will eat humble pie as a result; I'm just curious to know what your buying criteria were.

[IkarusJohn]

I like 50mm for some reason.  I have been using the Noct on the SL, but to be honest I was taken with the images I've seen using the 50 SL.  No particular image (as you say, many of the images shown aren't up to much), but particularly the way the in focus areas transition to out of focus, and the out of focus treatment.

 

Don't get me wrong, I still use AF, but only as a a starting point.  The Summilux balances very nicely on the SL, the AF (when I use it) is fast enough when it hunts in the right direction and it's weather sealed.  I haven't had the chance to take any portraits with it (I can't compete with you in this respect).

[scott kirkpatrick]

The SL offers back button focus as a starting point, usable in manual focus.  It's a big time and effort-saver.  It is essentially zone focus, since you snap the focus onto something at the correct distance and it is held there while you modify it, move a bit, or just shoot.  I think as we move into an era of electronically controlled lenses it should be the standard approach for street and journalistic shooting in complex environments.  Of course, in the Leica world it is apparently a strange new concept.

Edited January 17, 2018 by scott kirkpatrick

[sillbeers15]

What is the price in american dollars ? (5000 dollars ?)

A "normal" 75 or 90 mm at the same price as a reference 1.4 50 mm ? Not very likely.

I cannot find the price online.

SL90cron is only $150 lesser than SL50lux!

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Hallo,

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[Andrew Gough]

I am hoping that the next announcement is for a 24mm Summilux!

Edited January 19, 2018 by Andrew Gough