NEW M.. This year.. This Fall...

[Belle123]

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 "interesting", these responses  The Q is not an M, btw.  I have no problem with the Q and hope they continue with it.  People who need autofocus, embrace it!!  But it's not an M.  I suspect a Q redesigned to take M lenses will become a larger and heavier beast.  It's not exactly small to begin with, the Q. They had to indent the thumb area to make it comfortable to hold.  

 

No, the M should remain manual and hope it stays that way.  Would be a shame if it was changed.  You need autofocus to shoot family photos???  Maybe what someone needs is a lesson on camera settings, depth of field, etc.  I have no trouble focusing the M. You have trouble with eyesight?  Sorry but you won't see if in focus or not in the resulting photos. When my eyesight goes, will get a point and shoot camera.  I won't appreciate at that point the fine qualities.  That's just how that goes and sorry for anyone who is losing their eyesight. 

[pop]

Leica patent, released 2014: https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf?docId=WO2014198245&recNum=1&maxRec=&office=&prevFilter=&sortOption=&queryString=&tab=PCT+Biblio

 

The sketch shows two sensors (5+6) for range measurement. Because this, it is possible the use the range finder with the built in EVF simultaneously. That´s cool.

Yes, more about this here: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/248322-new-m-this-year-this-fall/page-5?do=findComment&comment=2866351

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[jaapv]

.  You need autofocus to shoot family photos???  Maybe what someone needs is a lesson on camera settings, depth of field, etc.

Some of us like to have their photographs in focus instead of guessofocused by zone focusing or "acceptably" sharp by DOF...

[lct]

[...] my quick feeling is that it could be, at least, no worse than the various "focus assist/confirmation in EVF"  we have seen in those years...

 

If it is not worse than focus assist it could be much worse than the optical rangefider then...

[joe1888]

Yes, more about this here: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/248322-new-m-this-year-this-fall/page-5?do=findComment&comment=2866351

 

Ah, thanks...

 

It is possible to have an optical finder and an EVF in one camera. Thats new for a range finder camera and something we expected since months.

 

My point is, it´s possible to use range finder and the EVF at the same time. This could be helpful with big lenses like zoom or AF lenses, when focused manually.

Edited August 5, 2015 by joe1888

[pop]

The camera drawn in that patent application does not have an optical range finder. It has an optical viewfinder, combined with an electronic rangefinder, if I read that correctly. 

[Belle123]

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Some of us like to have their photographs in focus instead of guessofocused by zone focusing or "acceptably" sharp by DOF...

Funny, I have no troubles focusing.  I don't guess.  Good focusing takes a lot of practice but for those that don't want to take the time, then autofocus IS for you.  

All this is so not important.  leica is going to do what leica is going to do.  We are mere consumers.  I just hope they aren't listening to the people who want the camera versions to give in to people who don't want to work at it.

[AndreasAM]

That' s what this patent is about. The difference in result in distance measurements from the phase-detection focus and from the opto- electronic rangefinder result is used to give you directions in optimal and more precise focusing in the hybrid EVF/ optical viewfinder or for your AF-lens

 

if it will give an advantage in low light focusing remains to be seen.

Edited August 5, 2015 by AndrewAM

[jaapv]

Funny, I have no troubles focusing.  I don't guess. 

Why should you avise to read up on DOF then?

[AndreasAM]

Funny, I have no troubles focusing.  I don't guess.  Good focusing takes a lot of practice but for those that don't want to take the time, then autofocus IS for you.  

All this is so not important.  leica is going to do what leica is going to do.  We are mere consumers.  I just hope they aren't listening to the people who want the camera versions to give in to people who don't want to work at it.

 

Well I am glad for you that you have a 100% rate with focusing. I will keep practising then.

Edited August 5, 2015 by AndrewAM

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

I just got 10 emails for this thread. How do I fix it to send me the first email???????

[IkarusJohn]

Can someone clarify - does the fact that this is an optic-electronic viewfinder automatically mean AF lenses?

 

The reason I ask is that we are speculating about two things here - the next M, and the new AF system camera based on the T mount. 

 

One of the biggest criticisms of the M(240) is the indifferent Visoflex, which sits on the top like a "carbuncle" and has not been upgraded. And yet, the electronic viewfinder enables the M(240) to overcome its biggest shortcoming - the use of teles longer than 135, or wider than 28, macros, zooms and R lenses generally.  The optico-electronic viewfinder could presumably be used with a traditional M mount, and adapters?

 

that does not automatically mean AF M lenses, which many here say are not feasible. 

 

Leica already makes AF T & S mount lenses. What would it use for a 35mm format/full frame system camera (and I think it has one)?  This rangefinder could well be part of this camera. 

 

I dont think Leica will mess about with the M more than it has already, but I also think we will see Leica continue with M variants - we have M(240), Monochrom, and do we still have the M-E?

 

Jono's busy, I suspect. This will be interesting. 

[likealot]

Funny, I have no troubles focusing.  I don't guess.  Good focusing takes a lot of practice but for those that don't want to take the time, then autofocus IS for you.  

All this is so not important.  leica is going to do what leica is going to do.  We are mere consumers.  I just hope they aren't listening to the people who want the camera versions to give in to people who don't want to work at it.

 

Horses for courses. Some people are good at MF and they have the time to take practicing it whereas others might not be so good at it and may not want to or may not have the time to take to practice.

 

Mere customers or not Leica wouldn't be here without them. Although one forum is not a full representation of all the customers hopefully it provides part of the picture and personally I hope Leica does listen to the customers. A lot of companies do listen to the customers (unless you are Apple and just drip feed the features in the products in order to keep the momentum going year on year).

[AndreasAM]

Can someone clarify - does the fact that this is an optic-electronic viewfinder automatically mean AF lenses?

 

The reason I ask is that we are speculating about two things here - the next M, and the new AF system camera based on the T mount. 

 

 

 

No, absolutely not!!

 

An opto-electronic Range Finder  can be implemented on a camera for use with an MF lens only, for use with an AF lens only, or a camera for use with both!

[pop]

The drawing in the patent application clearly shows the RF coupling roller and the text mentions it. This implies that the device is meant to be used with RF coupled lenses.

[IkarusJohn]

Thanks Andrew. That rather confirms my suspicion that this really resolves the issues with the EVF on both the M and T (slow switch over and terrible black out on otherwise good EVF).  

 

Built into the M(240), I'm suspecting this would be a huge improvement, but is Leica and are its customers ready for ditching the optico-mechanical viewfinder?  Would it still be a "messucher" camera? Or, are we looking at something else?  An AF camera, with better focusing implementation for MF lenses. 

[AndreasAM]

The drawing in the patent application clearly shows the RF coupling roller and the text mentions it. This implies that the device is meant to be used with RF coupled lenses.

With an MF-lens the RF coupling is archieved by an in-camera sensor at the (M-)mount, that reads the movement of the cam of the lens. With an AF-lens and an opto-electronic RF, the coupling is archieved by an in-lens sensor to read en feed the lens the focusdistance.

[IkarusJohn]

The interesting point is that this is not live view ...

[AndreasAM]

The interesting point is that this is not live view ...

Well, the distance reading of the electronic RF, combined with the on-sensor phase detection focus information will, combined, give directions for precise focusing. This will be displayed, together with f.i. the framelines, in the electronic overlay of an optical viewfinder, or combined with the information of the electronic viewfinder (EVF). Or the combination of EVF and OVF, the hybrid viewfinder (HVF?!).

 

Live View and focuspeaking, could still be applicable with an EVF and HVF. We still don't know the capabilities of an electronic RF in low light, with long telephoto lenses, SWA-lenses etc.

Edited August 5, 2015 by AndrewAM

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[IkarusJohn]

Sorry, I expressed myself badly - what I should have said was the use of an opto-electronic rangefinder does not automatically mean either AF or live view.  On its own, it could just be an enhancement of what we already have with the optical viewfinder in the M camera.  Obviously, Leica will offer live view (except for crippled cameras like the Edition 60) as it currently does on all its cameras other than the M-E.

 

My guess is that at its most basic, this development means an enhancement to the existing rangefinder, enabling focus confirmation of non-RF coupled lenses, while maintaining the RF coupling for M lenses.  That would mean accurate focusing without live view (or EVF) ... which would be a Good thing ...

Edited August 5, 2015 by IkarusJohn