Leica Upgrade program for M9 ( corrosion of sensor)

[IkarusJohn]

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How do I know if my M9 sensor is bad?If it is OK, will it go bad later? Should I send my camera in to Leica now for sensor replacement even if current sensor OK?

 

At this stage, I would enjoy your camera. Look every now and then to see if there's a problem (stop your lens down to f/16, set focus at infinity and take a picture of blue sky or a blank wall - you will see sensor dirt and any delamination).

 

I had cover glass separation (at least, that's what I think it was) and Leica replaced my sensor a year or so ago. I'm pleased that the initial response (posted on Leica Rumours) has been withdrawn, and that Leica has accepted that it will need to replace any affected sensor, whatever its age. It is unrealistic to tell Leica owners not to clean their sensors when the shutter (particularly on newer M9s) throws so much oil and muck onto the sensor. Cleaning is part of normal use.

 

Stefan Daniel's post above is nothing less than what I would expect from Leica (or from him personally), and it gives me tremendous faith that Leica is a brand I will continue with. However, there is now a conundrum ...

 

I have a Monochrom (my favourite camera) and an M9P - I love these cameras and I get a real thrill from using them. I had ordered the M Edition 60, and was quite excited by it, but sense prevailed and I canceled my order - my M9P is all the camera I need. Now, there is the prospect that both my sensors may be affected, or may be affected in the future - that is not something I want to hear. I will check them, and I will continue to use the cameras in comfort that if they do get affected, Leica will either repair them, or if they can't they will give me a good discount on a new camera. That is the Leica that I bought into.

 

But, it does mean that my cameras have even lower resale value, and I will probably trade them on the next digital M iteration - at a significant loss. I feel very sad about that. On the plus side, maybe Leica will produce a standard version of the M Edition 60, or at least a new, updated version of the M9P/M-E for those of us who don't want the more complex M(240) replacement ... For myself (as I've said before) I think the M(240) is half-baked in some of its iteration (EVF, video, focus peaking etc), which takes the shine off what is apparently very good about the camera (the sensor and the RF).

 

So, thank you Leica for responding promptly and in the way we expect from such a premium brand (that also looks after its loyal customers). I will buy your next M camera, and I will support you in future - but it will cost me in the sense that my two top of the line cameras are flawed, and I will have to replace them sooner than I thought I would.

 

It is what it is, and I would expect nothing more than what Leica has promised to do (except of course doing their best to ensure that this sort of thing doesn't happen in the future - improved design and quality control, perhaps?)

 

Cheers

John

[exile]

Great response from Leica.

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[davidmknoble]

This is what keeps great companies great. We are all willing to pay top dollar for our equipment because of the durability and technical quality. This will be potentially difficult for all involved, but I can tell you, keeps me as a loyal Leica customer for life...

 

Thank you, Stefan Daniel.

[david strachan]

Bravo Leica, Mr Daniel and the Management Board. Such an excellent response!

A relief for us all, and the ongoing Leica brand.

cheers David S

Edited December 10, 2014 by david strachan

[otto.f]

IkarusJohn: I don't see the lower resale value. Second owners will also profit from the just given lifelong sensor warranty, and/or also from a reasonable offer to trade in for a newer M, so second hand prices should rather go up I think. But I am not the market, I'm afraid

[jaapv]

Ask your dealer when in doubt. However, if you have to ask, chances are that nothing is wrong.

 

How do I know if my M9 sensor is bad?If it is OK, will it go bad later? Should I send my camera in to Leica now for sensor replacement even if current sensor OK?

Edited December 10, 2014 by jaapv

[asiafish]

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And, why not wait as long as possible to send a camera in for a new sensor? If, I only had some minor spot I'd wait and send it in as many months or years as I could. I'd get a new sensor, CLA, and who knows what else they would do while replacing the sensor. And, I think the sensor means the whole board. You'd have a mostly new camera to use for years more.

 

Not to mention if you send it later, chances are you will get a new sensor with a permanent solution incorporated therein.

[Leicachamp]

Does this sensor warranty apply only to original owners?

[fotografr]

At this stage, I would enjoy your camera. Look every now and then to see if there's a problem (stop your lens down to f/16, set focus at infinity and take a picture of blue sky or a blank wall - you will see sensor dirt and any delamination).

 

What does the delamination look like? I'm not at all sure of what to look for.

[andybarton]

Brent

 

There are lots of examples in the other sensor thread in this sub-forum.

 

Delamination looks like a skin disease, not just dust.

[jaapv]

Does this sensor warranty apply only to original owners?

I shouldn't think so. Mr Daniel is talking about cameras, not owners.

[k-hawinkler]

I suppose sensor cleaning by Leica is still free of charge and hopefully doesn't take that long.

Is this true?

[CalArts 99]

I shouldn't think so. Mr Daniel is talking about cameras, not owners.

 

I'm curious about this, too. He states 'regardless of age' but it's not really specific as to whether it would cover second or third owners, etc.. If so, that would be a benefit to buying used at a good price right now while knowing you'll be okay if it ever happens and also getting an upgrade option.

[jonoslack]

Does this sensor warranty apply only to original owners?

 

I don't think so - I'm pretty sure that, as Jaap says it applies to cameras. It's surely in Leica's interest to keep secondhand values good, and that means supporting secondhand cameras too.

[jaapv]

I'm curious about this, too. He states 'regardless of age' but it's not really specific as to whether it would cover second or third owners, etc.. If so, that would be a benefit to buying used at a good price right now while knowing you'll be okay if it ever happens and also getting an upgrade option.

This is a European factory. Over here the linking of guaranty to first ownership is highly unusual if not illegal..

[bocaburger]

It would make no business sense if it only applied to the 1st owner. Leica knows if it did, these cameras would be difficult or impossible to resell or trade-in, and that would deter or prohibit many people from upgrading to a new model.

[amusong]

Povlj

 

I believe there are various ways in which sensors can fail, but in my case it was blindingly obvious and you will know straight away if it happens to you. My photos were turning out perfectly normally as I shot my daughter's birthday party and then between one shot and the next this happened.....see photo.

 

This was fixed free of charge by Leica even after warranty expired but it has now failed AGAIN in exactly the same way a SECOND time. I posted about this on this forum yesterday, coincidentally only hours before the announcement from Leica was posted by Stefan Daniel.

 

Unfortunately my problem does not seem to be the specific one he is referring to.

[amusong]

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[Jean-Michel]

Just adding my voice to say that Leica is being very fair regarding this potential issue. I had that or a similar problem a year ago, sent my camera to Leica NJ, it came back with a new sensor and other checks,etc at no cost to me. I am curious about their offer for an upgrade to an M (240) and may be interested in it. For now, I simply enjoy working with a problem-free M9.

Jean-Michel

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[fahadm]

Leica pulled a rabbit out of the hat. They restored confidence and before the defect snowballed.

 

A perpetual warranty on the sensor minimises the financial impact (it won't bankrupt Leica and will allow dealers to sell inventory). The 80% majority of M9 users will not notice the fault, let alone bother replacing the sensor. I expect that they provision USD 10 to 20 million over 3-5 years.

 

A recall would have been a disaster (inventory, write-offs, bad publicity, impact on future sales). Direct and indirect cost over USD 100 million.

 

Perfectly balanced response. Super company.