Practicality of using a film Leica in the digital age?

[250swb]

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There really is a lot of whimsical nonsense talked about using film when really the bottom line question should be 'do you prefer the look of the results or not over all other options'? And that includes weighing up what similar effects you can get in post processing digital files. Listening to other peoples opinions shouldn't help you, film is yours to use, but it shouldn't be something you are persuaded to use.

 

Personally I like your idea and that you want to be committed to film. But encouraging you to do something when you have enough doubt to ask the original question is silly. You are going on a trip, it isn't an assignment, and the best way to get most out of a trip is to loosen up. By all means follow your heart and take your film camera, but it isn't a copping out to have a digital as well, and if you do use digital it isn't failure because there is nothing big and clever in coming back with pictures you are unhappy with if the occasion, the equipment, and the reality don't match up.

 

Steve

[leicaphilia]

As for the concern about fogging your film by having it put through repeated X-Ray scanning: I travel all the time. i always take a film camera and a hefty bag full of film. i used to keep the film in a lead lined bag, but then its tagged, taken out, and has to be hand checked anyway, so the bags are essentially worthless. Just ask for a hand-check.

 

Or better yet, just put your film through the scanner and forget about it. I've never had a film fog because of X-Ray screening. On some trips, the film will go through 4or 5 scans. Never an issue.

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[KM-25]

There really is a lot of whimsical nonsense talked about using film when really the bottom line question should be 'do you prefer the look of the results or not over all other options'?

 

Relax...people are just having fun with it...

 

It's not everyday you get to encourage a young photo enthusiast to go abroad and just use film. He asked a question in which there were bound to be replies that had *personal* insights and indeed, he got those, nothing wrong with that, right? Sure, there is some goofiness and I would also question the suggestion of chrome if he is not familiar with it...slide film is like the "SAT" exam on the topic of exposure and light.

 

But this bottom line thing, come on now, there is the journey that is often well considered...It's a different seeing and looking environment.

I think folks are giddy up to set him on his way with just film because some might get the feeling he would simply have a blast....

 

As for the concern about fogging your film by having it put through repeated X-Ray scanning: I travel all the time. i always take a film camera and a hefty bag full of film. i used to keep the film in a lead lined bag, but then its tagged, taken out, and has to be hand checked anyway, so the bags are essentially worthless. Just ask for a hand-check.

 

Or better yet, just put your film through the scanner and forget about it. I've never had a film fog because of X-Ray screening. On some trips, the film will go through 4or 5 scans. Never an issue.

 

Agree 100%, I find exactly the same...

 

I am planning on a trip overseas next Spring and will be taking about 40 rolls of 120 B&W IR film along with the same in regular Panchro in 120. I have no hesitation in doing this. I conduct myself exactly the way the authorities expect me to and usually get a hand check if I allow 20-30 extra minutes, I think anything you can put in your favor is a good thing. If it goes through the carry on X-ray which is about 1/2 the time, I am generally ok with it as I have never really ran into any issues...

Edited April 22, 2014 by KM-25

[250swb]

Relax...people are just having fun with it...

.

 

I think you should have fun and relax on your own trip, not hallucinate and have visions about how great things might be on somebody else's. It isn't fair if they are unsure.

 

Steve

[jwpettit]

Ok its probably time for me to come in with a follow up.

 

I completely understand that film has been just fine for years and years. My own father traveled all over the world accompanied by his Konica and Agfachrome.

 

As far as aesthetics, I do like the look of film but I'm definitely not a grain fanatic. But my intentions with exploring film are more to learn to really look. I've found that with my digital system, no matter how hard I try to hold back and limit myself, I still end up being snap crazy. I spent most of January in India and when I came back I had about 3,600 photos, and that was me trying to hold back. How many of those did I end up wanting to show? About 250ish. link if anybody is interested

 

With the film camera I work completely differently. I don't push the button unless I'm really convinced that I've got something good. I know that's really cliché but its true. That just doesn't happen with digital, even if you only take one memory card (there is always a delete button).

 

I also always wanted to learn how to work in a darkroom but that's beside the point. Ultimately what this boils down to is the fact that I'm a little OCD and am trying to get myself to understand that the world isn't going to stop turning if I don't have my DSLR with me on a big trip.

Edited April 22, 2014 by jwpettit
link

[erl]

Perform a simple test, to satisfy yourself. Take your M6 and some film, without the digital backup, to a town or city nearby that you have not really visited before. Use the film camera to explore and record your 'adventure' there and examine your results to see if you are pleased with the outcome. That may give you an idea of how you and the camera team up. Cheap exercise.

[imsilly]

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Taking your film out to be hand inspected rather then scanned is like taking off your trousers to fart.

 

Plus think of all the time you waste for other people in security unnecessarily.

 

You are not going to get fogging and I've never personally experienced it and I've taken a lot film abroad.

 

As for using film, it's all about the end results. I use film when I want to make traditional prints and when I think it will look best. Even with post production digital can still not match the look of film. Nothing looks like Portra over exposed in the digital world. Digital can do a nice slide look, but it still can't get near negative film.

[erl]

Taking your film out to be hand inspected rather then scanned is like taking off your trousers to fart.

There is no evidence to support such a claim.

 

Plus think of all the time you waste for other people in security unnecessarily.

It is security that wastes the time, not the customers.

 

You are not going to get fogging and I've never personally experienced it and I've taken a lot film abroad.

Actually, I have had fogging due to xrays at airports. Granted it is not common but has occurred. Most modern scanners are OK, but older gear is dodgy as used in some obscure destinations.

 

 

 

As for using film, it's all about the end results. I use film when I want to make traditional prints and when I think it will look best. Even with post production digital can still not match the look of film. Nothing looks like Portra over exposed in the digital world. Digital can do a nice slide look, but it still can't get near negative film.

The question was not about digital compared to film. It was about the OP having confidence to commit to film as a total experience.

[250swb]

I spent most of January in India and when I came back I had about 3,600 photos, and that was me trying to hold back. How many of those did I end up wanting to show? About 250ish. link if anybody is interested

.

 

A convenient number as it equates to 100 rolls of film, so 250 is 2.5 pictures per imaginary roll, and a very impressive average if shooting film. Have you never thought that the 'wasted' frame is just as important as the 'keeper'? Any of the greats would have been delighted with 2.5 pictures per roll, and they would have been distrustful of many more such is the discipline of self editing and the work ethic of keeping on a subject and exploring the situation as much as possible.

 

And that is the trouble with the 'film slows me down' syndrome, because in terms of 35mm it has only become a goal since the price of film went up in the digital age. The term previously has never existed. Slowing down was the case with large format, but instead of film slowing the photographer down it would be the camera itself. So now people want to slow down and get 36 keepers to a roll, yet still expect to embrace the freedom and spontaneity of the small camera. It isn't possible, it is a false premise, and ultimately it is driven by thrift, not wanting to do better.

 

Steve

Edited April 23, 2014 by 250swb

[KM-25]

Looks like from his last post the OP is committing to shooting film and leaving the digital behind, a really good move in my opinion because he will be able to commit to it and how one can *see* and *look* differently than he might with digital but without the distraction of of the latter.

 

Another great by product of travelng without digital is that you can leave more cords and electronics at home, just bring your smartphone and it's small charger and try to forget it even exists...kind of like casting your self in your own period movie in which you fully live in the moment instead of digitally verifying every move you might make in a given day.

 

Enjoy being different.....obviously some on here can not handle that....

Edited April 23, 2014 by KM-25

[NJH]

Funny you say that as it reminded me how liberating it is to leave the laptop, chargers, cords, backup memory devices etc at home.

[250swb]

Enjoy being different.....obviously some on here can not handle that....

 

Its good to be different, especially if you know why. Check my 4x5, 6x12, 6x6, 6x9, and 35mm film images on my Flickr stream. But difference can give some odd perspectives on what you are doing if it becomes a prime directive because it amounts to difference for difference sake. And (except to yourself) if you aren't communicating your picture is worthless whether on film or digital. I'm just trying to encourage the OP to think hard about the value of his pictures and place them above 'form', and to consider the dubious value of conforming to a previously trodden path if it is illusory.

 

Steve

[pico]

Its good to be different, especially if you know why. Check my 4x5, 6x12, 6x6, 6x9, and 35mm film images on my Flickr stream. [...]

Steve

 

 

I am with you on that.

 

The monitor presentation of images is abysmal. I wonder if one day the impoverished CRT of today will be superseded by technology that can actually show the qualities of larger formats that the dignitarie will regret.

 

To that end I maintain a darkroom, enjoy medium and large format as you clearly do.

 

It is a waste of our effort to convince the current (see date of post) mavens to convince them.

 

Even the large format sites seem to have abandoned all hope of The Print, the darkroom output in order to compromise so that they post virtual thumbnails of The Real Thing, and so many do not know or care.

 

 

 

Sent from my Etcha-sketch.

Edited April 23, 2014 by pico

[bruniroquai]

There are a several out there, a few using Leica in addition to other gear. Some are all film and some are using a mix, business as usual but on a much smaller scale than pre-digital...

 

I am transitioning out of digital in my work, that's for sure....

 

Why? for convenience and speed? What about the results? the wet prints? or even the scanned ones?

[KM-25]

Why? for convenience and speed? What about the results? the wet prints? or even the scanned ones?

 

Mostly for reasons of fine art, I live in a really well heeled market and they are pretty discerning, I am limiting my commercial work and moving towards this market. I find I am homing in on a much more stylized look and feel by using B&W film and the darkroom and I love eliminating any digital intrusions. Get their attention with knock em' dead imagery and set the hook with the fact it is hand crafted.

 

I also do use it in some commercial work too, it really does not add that much to the bill and to be honest, it is easy to absorb what little film costs in a line item for post production.

[Herr Barnack]

...I'm trying to convince myself to leave the Canon, lenses, CF cards, etc. at home and take the Leica and some rolls of film. Sounds great, except I can't seem to shake this voice inside my head that says:

 

"you're not actually going to take that as your only camera are you?"

"you know its just going to get stolen."

"your film is not going to stand up to 2014, USA-bound airport security and even if it does you're just going to screw it up in the darkroom when you get back."

"something is going to go wrong and you'll be sorry." ...

 

NONE of these things have to happen - it's natural to fret over "what ifs" when you are not very experienced with film photography, though. Fortunately, film photography is much easier than it seems to the inexperienced.

 

My thoughts on your worries are as follows -

 

"you're not actually going to take that as your only camera are you?" [spend $500-1000 for a film M as a backup; problem solved].

 

"you know its just going to get stolen." [Not if you are security conscious and take well thought out precautions].

 

"your film is not going to stand up to 2014, USA-bound airport security..."

[shoot ISO 400 or slower film and carry your film in these: Domke Film Guard Bag, Large 711-15B B&H Photo Video Problem solved].

 

"... and even if it does you're just going to screw it up in the darkroom when you get back." [Film is not that difficult to develop; practice on some rolls shot at home beffore you process your Germany film - or send it out for processing].

 

"something is going to go wrong and you'll be sorry." [There are many things that can go wrong with digital, too - probably at least as many as can go wrong with shooting film. The key is to practice and learn before you go to Germany; do NOT try to learn on the fly in Germany].

 

If you take B&W and color film, take the same ISO of both. It simplifies things and helps prevent under or overexposing your film by mistake.

 

Be sure you understand exposure metering and that your in-camera (or hand held) meter is accurate beore going.

 

Be certain to get the right ISO set on your camera for the film you are using. If you shoot ISO 100 film at ISO 400 (or higher), your film will be nearly useless and life will really suck.

 

Carry your film on board your flights. NEVER check your film or your cameras and lenses.

 

Ask for a hand inspection of your film at U.S. airports. If security tries to talk you out of it, politely and gently insist. If they refuse, put your Domke Film Shield bags with your film in them through the carry on x-ray machine. It will show up as a black square on the machine's screen and you will get your hand inspection anyway. In other nations, just put your Domke Film Shield bags & film thru the carry-on x-ray machines. They will hand inspect it at the "out" end of the machine.

 

After flying round trip from Detroit to Ulaanbaatar, Mongolia via Seoul, Korea with film M cameras and 120 rolls of 35mm film, I can report no film damage and no airport hassles from the security folk. I have found that if you are low key and respectful to the security people, they will respond in kind (nearly always). In Korea and Mongolia, the security people seemed to be mindful of treating international travelers well, probably in the hopes that they will want to return and spend more dollars in their home nation.

 

Bottom line: Don't be intimidated by film. Practice and learn before your trip. Plan ahead and all will go well.

 

Hope this helps...

[Jessestr]

Ditched my M8 for an M6 at the start of 2014 and never got any regret. I know what you are thinking and I had the same questions.. Even wrote an article about it.

 

The leap to film photography - Jesse Struyvelt

[tadeyev]

Here is what Kodak said about film through scanners back in 2003:

 

Motion Picture, Professional Films and Special Processes

Travelers probably shouldn’t worry about possible X-ray damage when hand-carrying their film onto the airplane unless

they are carrying:

• Highly sensitive X-ray or scientific films.

• Film with an ISO speed or Exposure Index (EI) of 400 or higher.

• Any motion picture films.

• Film of any speed that is exposed to X-ray surveillance more than 5 times (the effect of X-ray screening is

cumulative).

• Film that is or will be underexposed. (See Note 1 below.)

• Film that you intend to “push process.” (See Note 2 below.)

In any of these cases, you should request visual inspection of your film and of any cameras containing film. Depending on

the format(s) of film you have, carrying a light-tight changing bag may be advisable to help the inspection process.

Remember that this is only a guaranteed option in U.S. air travel. Outside of the U.S. you are required to comply with the

local standards and regulations.

NOTE 1: X-ray fog is most noticeable in the low exposure range of the film, and underexposed film has more of the image

recorded in this range. Therefore, the effects of X-ray exposure may further reduce the quality of underexposed images.

NOTE 2: Push-processing involves over-development of film to increase the effective speed and density of underexposed

images on color-negative and black-and-white films. On color-reversal films (slides), push-processing on underexposed

images decreases the density range. X-ray exposure has the potential to degrade the quality of images that will be push

processed.

For more information on how to protect motion picture films from X-ray fog or mail sanitization click here: motion picture X-ray fog.

 

And this is what I3A said in 2007...Similar but slightly changed:

 

Film

More care is needed for cameras with film, by comparison, as the X-ray scanners for both checked and carry-on luggage can fog both developed and undeveloped film. ITIP has found that the X-ray scanners used for screening carry-on bags will damage high-speed film (greater than ISO 800). For lower-speed film, problems appear to be cumulative: the majority of damage has been reported on film undergoing more than five passes through X-ray machines.

 

Accordingly, I3A advises travelers to request hand inspection of their high-speed (greater than ISO 800) film products, which is explicitly permitted by law. Hand inspection of lower-speed film is recommended only when the film has already been subjected to five trips through X-ray scanners. Additionally, black-and-white film and motion picture film, of any speed, are vulnerable to damage even on their very first scans, so travelers with these items should always ask for hand inspection.

 

Note that the screening machines used to screen checked baggage and some cargo will damage all film, regardless of speed or type. Therefore, I3A and the TSA both advise travelers to carry their film with them and never to put it in checked bags.

 

When travelers have returned from their holiday trips, it will still be important to safeguard their images: I3A also offers long-term advice on preserving consumers’ memories at its educational Web site, http://www.savemymemories.org.

[Herr Barnack]

ISO 400 is a good all-around emulsion speed for travel photography; unless you are shooting in very low light, it is plenty fast enough, particularly when paired with fast Leica M lenses.

 

I still advocate the use of the Domke film shield bags for air travel with film, though. These x-ray defeating bags are essential gear for traveling film users. Sure, they take up room and are a bit on the heavy side. So what?? Many things about air travel are inconvenient for we photographers.

 

In the end, it all depends on how dedicated a person is to their craft; if a person is willing to go to the trouble of shooting film, carrying a Domke film shield bag or two seems like it would be a non-issue.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[jwpettit]

You've all done a pretty good job of convincing me. I just need to get a little more practice with this camera and I'll be fine. Really, its a pretty easy machine to use, very intuitive, I'm just inexperienced with film but I'll get there!

 

Thanks!