My M9 is eating SD cards [MERGED}

[35mmSummicron]

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Marcus and Elliot, thank you--people who get my frustration on this matter!

 

I love my M8 dearly, its got quirks and design flaws--fine I'll live with them, but the M9 is brand spanking new (less than a week old) many things improved upon, and this SHOULD have been one of them.

 

I'd really like for Leica to make some sort of response about this potential M9 problem.

[UliWer]

I'd really like for Leica to make some sort of response about this potential M9 problem.

 

For potential problems you can only ask for potential responses. If there is a real problem,we can exspect a real answer - or better even a solution, like they gave for the M8, where I see it solved.

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[dalippe]

Marcus and Elliot, thank you--people who get my frustration on this matter!

 

I love my M8 dearly, its got quirks and design flaws--fine I'll live with them, but the M9 is brand spanking new (less than a week old) many things improved upon, and this SHOULD have been one of them.

 

I'd really like for Leica to make some sort of response about this potential M9 problem.

Yes, and of course that is why I started this thread. The M8 was the first digital M, etc. But there is no excuse not to use the M9 as a chance to start over and fix, at the very least, the *known* problems. We're not even talking about a new problem here... I am also hoping that Leica will put out some word about this. I don't expect this thread to be the cause, but the fact that the problem was discovered and published by a well known reviewer will hopefully oblige Leica to give an explanation of how this will be addressed.

[Elliott J]

For potential problems you can only ask for potential responses. If there is a real problem,we can exspect a real answer - or better even a solution, like they gave for the M8, where I see it solved.

 

Wasn't solved on mine! Still glitches and still I lose images. The "potential" of this problem occurring is minimized if you are shooting a couple of frames slowly. But if you are shooting quickly, it will happen. If the situation is the same with the M9 - which it appears to be given the reviews - then it is a problem, and an unacceptable one at that. Does this mean we will get an unacceptable answer to an unacceptable problem? most likely...

[marcusperkins]

Well, that's why I describe things and leave it to the photographer to see how that might apply to him or her. I expect Leica will sort this out but it isn't sorted yet.

 

To my mind that is how you would explain away the lovable idiosyncrasies of a rangefinder for example, or a slow frame rate that rightfully belongs to a rangefinder camera.

 

But a camera that locks up in the same way the M8 regularly did should really set the alarm bells ringing, rather than suggesting it may or may not apply to some people.

 

If it is brought on by an overly fast frame rate, Leica needs to reduce it to a level the camera can cope with. However, my M8 would regularly lock up when pushed, but unfortunately also occasionally when not pushed.

 

The lock-up problem of the M8 was never fully resolved.

 

Regardless, full credit to Sean Reid for having officially reported it.

[sean_reid]

Yes, it was reported in the update on RAW speed on 9-10-09.

[Overgaard]

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I might have experienced this today shooting a small series and was at frame 330 on the card. The M9 died sort of and I couldn't figure out what it was, except I came to think of this tread. Turning on and off didn't sort it out, so I changed battery as it could also be the other battery was done. Have no idea, but it worked with the new one. Didn't have time to examine the other battery and don't think I missed any shots (won't be missed at least).

 

I can't remember if I was adjusting WB when it happened, I think I was (maybe I accidentally shot series of Manual WB adjustment; I don't know)

 

I shoot DNG un-comprssed + JPG fine and this is the first "problem" I've had shooting the first 1,000-1,500 frames. The M9 has been at work three days fulltime so far and has full days rest of the week. It's performed flawlessly, fast and uncomplicated. I'm real happy with the M9.

 

The DMR would have caused more problems shooting 1,000-1,500 frames, but as said above, you learn to live with things. Slow AF, buffers or whatever problems different camera (brands) might have. At least Leica cameras really sings when they sing, so fixing pictures is the last concern ;-)

Edited September 15, 2009 by overgaardcom

[Shootist]

Are you referring to the "Video Tour of the Leica Assembly" video? If correct, the camera that is cleaned by the technician at the end of the video is a M8 and not a M9 as far as I can see. Perhaps this problem of the M8 has been addressed.

 

Anyone with a M9 can verify?

 

You are absolutely correct. Why this video is titled Assembling the Leica M9 I have no idea. You see M8/.2's as much as you see the M9.

I would think the main aim of Leica would be putting together M9's as that is what's going to sell the most. Why they are still working on M8.2's in August is beyond me.

 

Well I'll wait to hear from M9 users and whether or not the camera freeze when trying to enter sensor cleaning mode.

 

Ther are other report of the camera freezing so I won't be surprised whe it freezes trying to clean the sensor.

[Shootist]

Ed, my M8 has NEVER froze. (Knock on wood )

 

Please add a YET to your statement.

Myself I have never had any of the M8's I've had, 4 of them, lock up when actually taking images. But I have had all 4 of them lock up when trying to enter sensor cleaning mode.

[pluton]

 

First of all, there's no high speed continuous AF, why would you even contemplate continuous shooting using your M?

 

Now, if your subject even moved a bit in between frames, they will be out of focus.

 

Are you continuously focusing it manually? Then, how do you keep your camera still when focusing?

 

For a lively or moving subject, not only can one track the focus through the finder, but also, and commonly in fast moving situations, one can track the focus AND frame the shot without looking through the finder at all. It worked OK for Garry Winogrand. Also, if handheld, the camera is never completely still. It's more a matter of finding the moments in between the pulses of operator induced shake.

[GlennB]

Lest anyone thinks I wouldn't like to have a M9 from my earlier post, I would like to state for the record that If I had $7K in my pocket right now I would order one today.

 

I have been shooting digital for work from the early days when the first camera we had cost around $20K and was truly almost unusable for anything other than assignments

that were on deadline where all that mattered was having an image, any image, in time for press run. BTW that camera is now a paperweight, can't even download anything from it with our current PCs we are using now.

 

The first really usable cameras we got that we could use for all our assignments also had problems where images were lost. The manual said you had to turn the camera off every time you changed lenses or attached or removed a hotshoe type flash. I did lose images several times when I forgot in the heat of the moment.

 

The camera I'm now using for work (different brand from above) is much much better in all ways than those cameras mentioned above, but still has some things that could be better.

 

What I'm trying to say is that no camera is perfect, and they do keep getting better. Leica started later than most in the digital world and in some ways is playing catch-up, but I really like using my M8 for all the reasons one uses a RF camera. And I think I can live with a few glitches if I manage to get my hands on a M9.

 

Hopefully Leica will come up with a firmware fix, or maybe better cells for the battery

if voltage drop proves to be the problem.

 

Just my 2cents,

GlennB

[bybrett]

Anyone running M9 on 0.9 FW is beta...

 

Anyone got freezing evidence in FW 1.002 - no problems here?

[markowich]

unfortunately the leica/jenoptik budget restrictions in RD show up. e.g. m9 freezes in the sensor cleaning mode. what we have here is essentially an M8.2, upgraded by the new kodak FF sensor, with underdeveloped electronics, as admitted by s daniel since it had to be rushed out to the market to guarantee (attempt) leica survival. lamentable medium-high iso noise, an improved but still unresoved IR issue...but excellent leica lenses giving excellent base iso performance. leica should have concentrated their resources into m development, not going into a dying medium format market.

peter

[gravastar]

unfortunately the leica/jenoptik budget restrictions in RD show up. e.g. m9 freezes in the sensor cleaning mode. .........................................

Does anyone have evidence of this? If it's the factory tour video the camera could have been an M8, or, if it was an M9 we don't know what version of firmware the camera had installed. So far I've cleaned the sensor (2x) on the M9 without lockup.

 

Bob.

[Shootist]

Does anyone have evidence of this? If it's the factory tour video the camera could have been an M8, or, if it was an M9 we don't know what version of firmware the camera had installed. So far I've cleaned the sensor (2x) on the M9 without lockup.

 

Bob.

 

To me at second look it is a M8, no notch in the top cover next to the viewfinder window.

But we'll have to wait and see how the M9 does. I don't remember the last time I had a lockup on my chrome M8 but then I haven't had the need to clean the sensor that often lately.

 

saying that above I'll probably have a lock up the next time I try to clean the sensor, Murphy Law.

[sean_reid]

Anyone running M9 on 0.9 FW is beta...

 

Anyone got freezing evidence in FW 1.002 - no problems here?

 

My tests were done with 1.002 as noted in the review.

[afineman]

I am glad that I found this review tonight. I thought that I was alone with the problems that I have had with my M8. In fact it's in the shop (again) due to many of the issues mentioned in this thread. I was hopeful for the M9 but fearful that in fact it would be as error prone as the M8 and sadly it looks like I was correct.

 

These cameras are unacceptable.

 

Like all professional photographers I need a camera that works when I pick it up. Leica needs to get back to doing what they once did and make a camera that works. I do not have the luxury of reshooting a situation when the camera jams up. What's more, no one who pays what we have paid for a camera should ever have to think about that either.

 

I know cameras jam, hell film gets messed up in the lab at times as well. But the amount of problems that these cameras are having is just not acceptable.

 

I really hope that Leica can stay in business long enough to produce a working digital rangefinder.

Edited September 27, 2009 by afineman

[Overgaard]

Don't see why not.

 

A camera like this has a number of asynchronous activities running at once - shutter firing and winding, exposure assessment, image readout, processing, display, card writing, even the flashing of the red LED is an asynchronous activity which will be handled by a software timer somewhere.

 

All is fine providing no-one messes up and the problem comes the more you try to overlap the activities to increase throughput/burst capacity. The accountants only want to put, say, 256Mb of RAM in there but the marketing people want a burst of 10 shots - immediately conflicting requirements.

 

Things will get worse if you try to predict along the following lines: "the RAW data buffer is currently full, but by the time the next exposure and readout has happened, there should be space, so it's OK to fire the shutter and capture the image".

 

Assuming there is no straightforward bug in the code, one way to address this might be to be more conservative with their memory management.

 

This is intersting and gives some insight. It opens up for explanations and solutions, and one thing I wonder is if the system count on writing times before it sends the next image through (or allow it to be taken), or if it actually reads how much space is in the buffer before it allows the next image.

 

But also any process started could cross the buffers writing, basically? Im thinking how battery save mode would work (if set to 1 minute and it takes the buffer 72 seconds to save 7 images), or how "noise optimization" interfer with processes (as the screen says it does with very overlit or very dark exposures). But basically activating the lightmeter by pressing the shutter slightly could interfere with ongoing processes. Or is that an entirely different part of the M9 that is used for such things (blinking lamps, menus, etc?).

 

It sounds as like a Jenoptik thing, that it is somethign they didn't do properly. Or perhaps one of those problems where Leca can't place responsibility because one says it's the hardware, the other says it's Leica, the third say it's the software. Should be easy to find what the actually bug is and fix it. Perhaps they should outsoruce the problem definition and bug finding to some entire different company.

[35mmSummicron]

Is it safe to assume that both Leica and Jenoptik should know the M8/M8.2/M9 very intimately, and better than anyone else?

 

With that assumption, they should know all bugs and quirks from the M8/M8.2 hardware or software (didn't we see an M8 crash during Michael Richmann's Leica assembly video infront of a Leica tech?)

 

What is upsetting is that they know of bugs like this and let it continue in a brand new camera, the M9. Its not 100% conclusive to me that the M9 shares this flaw, but it sure looks thats way.......

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Guest EarlBurrellPhoto]

Thank God there are still people willing (or maybe it's compelled?) to be early-adopters. By Photokina 2010 I bet the M9 will be fully de-bugged. Or the M9.2 will be.