luigi bertolotti Posted May 25, 2015 Share #7501 Posted May 25, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Wilson, can be that the engine(s) of this odd car did come from Maserati ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 25, 2015 Posted May 25, 2015 Hi luigi bertolotti, Take a look here Name this car..... I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
wlaidlaw Posted May 25, 2015 Share #7502 Posted May 25, 2015 Luigi, No it had a unique engine. I am not sure how many engines were made, I think somewhere between 5 and 7. In the end, the demise was rather sad. The team owner handed the cars, engines, drawings and spare parts to a petroleum company to try and preserve the project for posterity. The company dumped them at the back of one of their refineries, where the whole lot was vandalised and raided by metal thieves until a point where the whole lot was just thrown away. The whole story includes various bits of skullduggery, fraud, diversion of government funds, rather ironically (you will see why), it would make a good film. Wilson Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted May 28, 2015 Share #7503 Posted May 28, 2015 I think I will have to tell everyone what the mystery car is. I have been working with historic race cars for close to 50 years and I had never heard of it. It is a Sacha Gordine (no relationship to Gordini). The eponymous project was started in the late 1940's by a wealthy French film producer, who wanted to start an F1 team and make a film about it at the same time, in a similar fashion to Steve McQueen's Le Mans. He got French government support in the form of loans against advance tax credits (yes I don't follow that either ) and found some other investors in French industry plus a fair amount of his own considerable wealth. It was designed by Vigna, all to be built in magnesium (chassis, suspension and engine). The car was clearly inspired by Porsche's Cisitalia GP design. The project took longer than estimated and ate money, not helped by the lack of knowledge of building a race car all in magnesium. When originally conceived it was to have either a 1.5L supercharged 90º V8, whose amazing specs I posted above and for tracks which needed more torque or lower fuel consumption, an atmospheric 4.5L V8. By the time the project was nearing fruition, 1.5LS/C and 4.5L F1 had died, so the engine design was altered to a 70mm x 64mm V8 4 OHC giving 1970cc. In this form it apparently produced around 190-195 HP. The engine was designed by an anglo-siamese-frenchman called Perkins. Two cars and between five and seven engines were completed and tested prior to entry to the Pau GP in 1953 but apparently withdrawn. By this time the cash had run out and the whole thing was wound up with over 90 millions FFCS debt. Gordine retained the cars and engines and for some years they sat on a barge moored in the middle of the Seine. Gordine then gave the whole lot to Shell France for safe keeping but they just didn't bother sadly. Now I have a new one which should be much easier. I drove this vehicle yesterday. Its performance could best be described as leisurely. Wilson Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/119687-name-this-car/?do=findComment&comment=2823294'>More sharing options...
gmo Posted May 28, 2015 Share #7504 Posted May 28, 2015 Wilson, Is this a Citroen Kégresse C4 halftrack like the one's used for the Croisière Noire? Rgds Gerd Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted May 28, 2015 Share #7505 Posted May 28, 2015 Gerd, Very quick off the mark. This is indeed a P19B Citroen Kegresse based on a C4. It has a 1800cc side valve petrol engine, producing not a lot of power. It has a three speed and reverse gearbox plus a two speed transfer box. It is quite difficult to drive with very heavy steering and there is so much friction in the track system that it slows to a virtual stop when your try to change up gears on the non-synchro box. Conversely this makes changing down quite easy. It also has a reverse pattern gear change like a Bugatti 35 but this is something that does not worry me. The tracks on this one are very worn and the owner is trying to source new or at least less worn tracks. It is not exactly crash friendly with the gravity feed petrol tank sitting above your legs. The traction is amazing. In low ratio first I was easily going up 40º+ slopes on loose ground. The problem is that there is no weight on the steering at this angle and there are no "fiddle" differential brakes to steer on the tracks. Your turn. Wilson Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/119687-name-this-car/?do=findComment&comment=2823341'>More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted May 28, 2015 Share #7506 Posted May 28, 2015 I note on other pictures of the Kegresse that many are carrying a large cylindrical ballast weight between the front dumbirons. You can see on the above one where this fits. I presume this would improve the steering on steep slopes. Wilson Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted May 28, 2015 Share #7507 Posted May 28, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) SACHA GORDINE... NEVER heard about... from some other pictures I've found on the net, it seems that the "Nose" is someway a predecessor of the Ferrari 156 of 1961... A bon vivant of Russian ancestry (Wikipedia).. and this curios detail.. "Il a été marié à Régine Storez, première femme pilote automobile à avoir été payée pour courir." Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted May 28, 2015 Share #7508 Posted May 28, 2015 (edited) "Il a été marié à Régine Storez, première femme pilote automobile à avoir été payée pour courir." That may have been true in France but there were a number of paid lady drivers in the UK in the 1920's and 30's. It sometimes caused difficulties, as the "amateur" status of racing drivers was a very murky area and if you were a paid professional, you should not for example, have belonged to the British Racing Drivers Club, which was supposedly "gentlemen and ladies" only. At one time, paid drivers were looked on as being the same as chauffeurs, which they sometimes were; e.g. William Grover-Williams, who won the first Monaco Grand Prix in 1929. Wilson Edited May 28, 2015 by wlaidlaw 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmo Posted May 28, 2015 Share #7509 Posted May 28, 2015 Thanks Wilson, Let's stay more or less in the same colour scheme with this one. Shouldn't be too difficult I think. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Gerd Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Gerd ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/119687-name-this-car/?do=findComment&comment=2823591'>More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted May 28, 2015 Share #7510 Posted May 28, 2015 I know what this is, although it could be the K or S model but it's time someone else had a go. Wilson Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Z. Goriup Posted May 28, 2015 Share #7511 Posted May 28, 2015 I think I know what it is, and I'll go so far as to declare this to be the K model, but will also defer to others. JZG Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuny Posted May 28, 2015 Share #7512 Posted May 28, 2015 VW Thing? Or if not that, its Kubelwagon inspiration? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmo Posted May 29, 2015 Share #7513 Posted May 29, 2015 Stuart, Indeed the Kubelwagen - this one is to be seen in Bastogne in the renewed Museum of the Battle of the Bulge. But I have to say that the difference between a K or an S is unknown to me. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Over to you Gerd Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Over to you Gerd ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/119687-name-this-car/?do=findComment&comment=2824250'>More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted May 29, 2015 Share #7514 Posted May 29, 2015 Gerd, The S version is the Schwimmwagen amphibious version. You either need to see the engagement lever for the drop down prop drive or the prop drive at the rear. Someone drove one of those across the English Channel - foolhardy idiot! Wilson 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuny Posted May 31, 2015 Share #7515 Posted May 31, 2015 Thank you Wilson. BTW: Above you made several comments about desirable Lancias. The current issue of Hemmings Sports & Exotic Cars of a collector's exquisite Lancia sub-collection which includes virtually all of their winning rally vehicles:'69 Fulvia HF Fanalone, '75 Stratos HF, '83 037 Evo 2 and '88 Delta Integrale. And now the next puzzle car: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/119687-name-this-car/?do=findComment&comment=2825080'>More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted May 31, 2015 Share #7516 Posted May 31, 2015 F100? Wilson Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hiles Posted May 31, 2015 Share #7517 Posted May 31, 2015 Someone drove one of those across the English Channel - foolhardy idiot! Could the mystery "foolhardy idiot" have been Clarkson? Oh deary me. Tut tut. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted May 31, 2015 Share #7518 Posted May 31, 2015 Could the mystery "foolhardy idiot" have been Clarkson? Oh deary me. Tut tut. I think he drove a pick up truck with a 200HP outboard motor bolted to the back across the channel not a Schwimmwagen. The Schwimmwagen was designed in 1940 (production from 1941 to 44) to get across deep rivers, not for extended marine adventuring. They were made with shortened wheelbases (1.98M), as the first prototypes with the standard wheelbase (2.4M) kept splitting their tub, where the front suspension attached, from climbing out of river banks and then would sink when they next went in the water. Wilson Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuny Posted May 31, 2015 Share #7519 Posted May 31, 2015 Wilson - Wrong marque. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted May 31, 2015 Share #7520 Posted May 31, 2015 Stuart, The only other one I can think of that had the square outline rear wings would be a 1955-ish GMC pick up. Wilson Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.