Return to film.

[Rolo]

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Ha,

 

Less grain !

 

From a distance it looks ...... er, crap.

 

Rolo

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[Kent10D]

Aaaaugh!

What have you done to that poor photo?!

 

Good demonstration of why the grain is best left as it is though.

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[PATB]

I am new to photography having just got the rangefinder addiction and just found the beauty of BW photography. My newbie thoughts is that for scanning and digital prints, I much prefer XP2 over Tri-X (only black and white film I use and develop myself so far). Smoother grain, enables use of digital ICE, and great latitude (I can't seem to get exposure wrong with XP2). Scanned Tri-X is just too grainy for my taste. I use a Nikon Coolscan with Vuescan software.

 

For wet printing, I will stick with Tri-X (or another black and white film) as the grain is actually quite pleasing in gelatin silver. This is my preferred workflow for black and white.

 

Unfortunately, I rely on a local college for darkroom access. Since the college will be closed for the holidays, I will be back to scanning negatives and digital printing. I therefore am stocking up on XP2 for the holidays

 

As I said, I am new to this so my experience is probably due to the fact I have yet to learn how to properly scan and photoshop. XP2 seems so much easier to scan and tweak in Lightroom. And that digital ICE!

[tgray]

From my experience:

 

- Traditional B&W films scanned at anything but the highest res of the scanner (try to get 4000dpi on a good neg scanner) look grainier than they actually are.

 

- Minilab scans are great, but often seem to be a bit contrasty, especially blowing out the highlights. Rescan the keepers at home if you want to do something special with the pic.

 

- What I do with C41 films - take to minilab (Target for me) and get develop and scans. Skip the prints. They scan them for 4x6 prints, I get my negs developed and a CD for $2-4 depending on how its rung up. Then I take them home, and if I want prints, I can print out the negs that are actually good. Ends up saving me money in the long run...

[Guest malland]

If it is the scanning that's the problem, the interesting issue arises as to why turn back to film if you still have to deal with all the digital issues of scanning and post-processing. At that point I'd rather shoot digital and have fewer problems. Also, I've always had conceptual problems with the idea of scanning film: you photograph the subject once and then you have to photograph the negative, which is what scanning is, meaning that you're taking a photograph of a photograph, with inherent deterioration of the the image. Been there, done that.

 

If I were going back to film I would rather go all the way and print in the darkroom as well rather than this hybrid — or should I say, bastardized? — route.

 

Ultimately, if you want good scans you have to go for hight-end custom scanning, the cost of which is prohibitive, or get a good scanner and scan yourself. I used to use on an Imacon Precision III, which it took me 15-18 minutes for each 6,300 ppi scan, and then some 10 minutes for spotting, As a result I would examine my contact sheets and scan only the frames that I was going to print, usually on the average 2-4 per 35mm roll.

 

Hey, in the end it's easier to get the "leica glow" digitally! (Joke — or is it really?)

 

—Mitch/Paris

Mitch Alland's slideshow on Flickr

[Guest stnami]

Imacon Precision III

...give it to me:p

 

.

.

Hey, in the end it's easier to get the "leica glow"

........yea I always wonderd how to get matt paper to glow,,,,,,,,j

[Guest malland]

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Heh-heh, Imants. It's just standing there in Bangkok, like the M6 I haven't shot a frame with since July 2006.

 

I haven't been able to get myself to sell either because each time I think about doing so I muse about going for a 2-3 week trek in New Guinea where I won't be able to charge batteries...

 

But that reminds of how colourful Pidgin apparently is. I read a long time ago about an announcement on Air Nuigini of what to do in case emergency, which reads in Pidgin, in which spelling is phonetic (note that "bolus" means aircraft): "Suppose bolus he bagarap..."

 

—Mitch/Paris

Mitch Alland's slideshow on Flickr

[Guest stnami]

My brother in law is there at the moment,doing God stuff,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, now Mitch explain this Leica glow on matt paper..

[Guest malland]

No, there's no glow on matt paper: I only use glossy-type papers with Photo Black ink. (It's what Anselm Adams taught me.)

 

—Mitch/Paris

Flickr: Photos from Mitch Alland

[spylaw4]

I really don't want this thread to degenerate into a digital vs. film argument, or to wander way off topic, please.

 

My grateful thanks to all who have contributed very helpful hints and suggestions - I've got a lot to be going on with and to try out over the next while. Progress will be reported.

[andybarton]

Brian

 

For about fifty quid you can set yourself up with all the kit you need to process your own B&W in your own kitchen.

 

It's cheap, simple, and gives you the chance to experiment with developers, timing and so on.

 

You would need your own scanner, though...

 

Me, I'm looking forward to my colour chemistry to arrive (on at least a three week back order, that's how popular home brewing of slides is ). If it arrives, I might shoot some Astia when we all go to see Father Christmas in Manchester.

[spylaw4]

Brian

 

For about fifty quid you can set yourself up with all the kit you need to process your own B&W in your own kitchen.

 

It's cheap, simple, and gives you the chance to experiment with developers, timing and so on.

 

You would need your own scanner, though...

 

Me, I'm looking forward to my colour chemistry to arrive (on at least a three week back order, that's how popular home brewing of slides is ). If it arrives, I might shoot some Astia when we all go to see Father Christmas in Manchester.

 

Yeah Andy, I used to do it back (sometime in the paleolithic era ) in my teenage years, colour slides as well, and I am thinking about it. Maybe after Xmas?

[Mark Antony]

I reckon you could process your own, don't worry it sounds hard but all you need is a tank (secondhand £5) thermometer (£8 Jessops) some Rodinal £5, fixer £5 a couple of 1L jugs from the pound shop and a 5ml syringe from the chemist.

 

Don't worry about expensive scanners, I bought a Minolta DiMage III for £100.

That scanner coupled with Vuescan is capable of excellent results that with the right printer/paper combo are 90% as good a any fine-art print I can produce with a DeVere (that is some boast).

here is a scan from it, I have a A4 that looks really good too on Fine art ink-jet.

If you are skeptical I'll happily mail you a print so you can judge quality.

 

Mark

[ndjambrose]

.... Frankly I found the results straight from the disc somewhat disappointing - quite grainy and to my eye far too contrasty. I won't even comment on the prints provided. Is the graininess the result of the film, the processing or the scanning, or even a combination? ....

 

I think you're looking at the result of cheap and automated scanning. Frankly those results are appalling - I hope you didn't pay much for them. But the beauty of film is you have the negatives. So if you get a couple of high-end scans done by a pro-lab you'll be delighted.

 

In my experience scanning is one area where high street service just doesn't meet expectations. I recently asked a high street lab for 'high resolution' scans from a roll of negatives to meet a rush job where I didn't have time to do them myself. The lab gave me files that were around 2.5 Mb for each scan. I was astounded - my idea of high resolution is around 200 Mb. The quality was awful - covered in dust, over compressed tonal range and partially out of focus. Needless to say I didn't accept them.

 

Go to a pro lab and you'll never have these problems again. Even better, invest in a film scanner when you can.

[Michael-IIIf]

For about fifty quid you can set yourself up with all the kit you need to process your own B&W in your own kitchen.

.

 

I was just about to say that. It's not even fifty quid. All you need is a tank and a tenner's worth of chemicals. It is amazingly pleasing, the thrill of that first glimpse when you pull the film off the developing spool is like when the stylus hits the vinyl - oh, I just remembered, you don't do that aspect of analogue.

 

But, and it's a big but, then you have to do the scanning. Even with batch-scanning enabled it is still booooooooooooorrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnng.

[valtof]

Ultimately, if you want good scans you have to go for hight-end custom scanning, the cost of which is prohibitive, (...)

 

Hi Brian, Hi Mitch,

 

See bellow an example, a sunset at Rialto, Venice :

 

- Kodak triX 400 processed by Picto (a good pro lab in Paris) ;

- M6 and preASPH 50 lux, probably shot at f1.4 or f2 at 1/60s or 1/125s ;

- Home scanned with Epson V700 and Vuescan, straight scan in 16bits DNG format at 4800 dpi ;

- Post-processing of the DNG file in Lightroom.

 

Just think that the Epson V700 is a 500$ only flatbed scanner and Vuscan a 80$ only little piece of software...

 

Fist is the full frame picture and second is what would look like a 100% crop of a 80x120cm print.

 

Hope that this will help

Cheers

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[ddp]

My local lab provides excellent scans actually - much of the C-41 stuff I post on here comes directly off their CD's. I'm fairly impressed by what they can do. My chromes I usually scan on Nikon Supercoolscan 8000 or 4000.

 

I do like the fact the fact that some are rediscovering film....I wish I could work in a darkroom again. I actually miss the solitude and atmospherics provided by softly glowing red lamps and running water.

[andybarton]

I wish I could work in a darkroom again. I actually miss the solitude and atmospherics provided by softly glowing red lamps and running water.

 

You really need a darkroom with an en-suite, don't you

[ddp]

You really need a darkroom with an en-suite, don't you

 

 

Anything for convenience!

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[spylaw4]

This is a shot from the 2nd roll of Neopan developed by a different almost local company (Panther Imaging), and scanned by them. Regrettably on one or two of the scans there are some hairs/ dust marks which is a pity, but in general the results are much more satisfactory. There's a photo in the "Other" forum as well as the sample below.

 

I am seriously considering self-processing ( ) and scanning, but for now I"ll use commercials. I've got an XP2 to try next when the R6 comes back from having the film counter fixed (under guarantee).

 

R6 35-70 f4. Neopan 400.

 

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