SL2S FW6.0

[helged]

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1 hour ago, michali said:

Like others here, with prolonged use over time, I've spent a great deal of effort, trial & error to set my cameras up so that they function optimally  for my work. I'm not going to let a half-baked FW update screw that up. This is ridiculous, surely sufficient testing for glitches should be done before FW is released. 

After reading through 10 pages of issues here, I'm staying away from this upgrade for both my SL2 & SL2-S.

+1. Same for me... 

[Photoworks]

On 12/12/2023 at 2:43 PM, hdmesa said:

Great news.

I do find it odd, though, they didn't know the joystick push-to-magnify was a popular feature. The SL line's autofocus, while workable, has been a bit behind the competition long enough now that recent SL2/SL2-S purchases have got to be heavily skewed toward M lens users who only make occasional use of an AF lens. SL owners who use mostly M lenses should be a higher-priority focus group for Leica.

I was about to go back to the SL2-S for manual focus adapted lenses after selling my Zf – that is, until this firmware came out and broke the joystick magnification feature. Instead I bought an S5 IIX, which also has the joystick push-to-magnify feature. Thanks to this purchase, I now also have some new-to-me things I may not be able to give up: PDAF with continuous AF tracking that actually works, lighter weight, open gate video with anamorphic lens support, image crop/masking ratio for X-Pan 65x24, etc. all while maintaining the color and noise performance I was used to (addicted to!) from the SL2-S. The LUMIX menu system is a pain compared to Leica, but it's ok once initial setup is done. Hopefully this will tide me over until the SL3, but bar is set pretty high for me now.

I was pretty bummed about the Joystick improvements.

Yesterday I swapped the leica M adapter to the generic LM-L close-focus adapter. To my surprise, the magnification was back to the Joystick, and the thumb weel was not doing anything. Leica?!?! So much for consistency.

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[BernardC]

12 hours ago, Photoworks said:

I was pretty bummed about the Joystick improvements.

Yesterday I swapped the leica M adapter to the generic LM-L close-focus adapter. To my surprise, the magnification was back to the Joystick, and the thumb weel was not doing anything. Leica?!?! So much for consistency.

That's my main gripe with this firmware. The camera behaves in different ways, depending on which lens you use. I wouldn't mind as much if Leica said "here's the new way of doing this, you'll have to un-learn the old way." I really liked the old way, but I'm not opposed to change, even if this one seems arbitrary and regressive. Now I have to build muscle memory for two different workflows, on the same camera.

[hdmesa]

9 hours ago, BernardC said:

That's my main gripe with this firmware. The camera behaves in different ways, depending on which lens you use. I wouldn't mind as much if Leica said "here's the new way of doing this, you'll have to un-learn the old way." I really liked the old way, but I'm not opposed to change, even if this one seems arbitrary and regressive. Now I have to build muscle memory for two different workflows, on the same camera.

And here you hit on the one huge difference between Leica's firmware and other brands. Leica usually does not program functions that completely change based on context. That requires a lot of mental overhead on the part of the user. And once a brand goes down that rabbit hole, they tend to dig deeper and deeper over time. I love my S5IIX, but the context-based assumptions I had to 1.) learn and then 2.) memorize are mind-numbing – so much so that I've about decided to dedicate it to video and go back to the SL2-S for photo work.

 

Edited January 30 by hdmesa
grammar

[V23]

On 12/8/2023 at 10:50 PM, Andy Y said:

Hi there!

Updated my SL2-S yesterday via the Photos App to Firmware Vers. 6.0. To my astonishment the zoom/magnification function by pressing the joystick button doesn't work anymore. If you scroll through the menu and select the joystick options, the "zoom" option for MF lenses is not there anymore. This is rather annoying when using MF lenses. The only way you can use the magnification is by using the thumb wheel. This is less than ideal to say the least.

Anyone else with the same experience or is it just me being to stupid to find the right setting on Firmware 6.0 ?? 

Thanks for your help.

Andy

 

 

Hi Andy Y,

I am finding loss of magnification function by pressing the joystick button annoying as well after upgrading to FW6 as I am often using MF M mount lenses on my SL2-S. Additional way to thumb wheel to get magnification is by pressing the front upper FB. 

I just found if I use my Novoflex LET/LEM adapter in stead of Leica one that pressing joystick it activates magnification function as before FW6.

[matted]

I guess I can consider myself lucky in that I was already using the thumbwheel for magnification when using MF lenses. I am shocked that removing this function from the joystick was overlooked, but hopefully it will be added back soon.

 

In Leica's defence, it must be very hard to strike the perfect balance between giving users enough customizability to set the cameras up to their liking, and having the nearly unusable faff that has become Sony/Fuji/Nikon/etc menus. I would say overall that Leica has done a remarkable job with the UX on the SL series cameras which is a big part of why I (and many others I'm sure) were willing to pay the premium for these bodies. The premium we are paying does make these gaffs less acceptable of course.

[Simone_DF]

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21 hours ago, matted said:

having the nearly unusable faff that has become Sony/Fuji/Nikon/etc menus.

Interesting. The brands you mention cover about 90% of the market. And yet people buy them, use them, and take great photos on these cameras. Perhaps they are not that bad. 

[matted]

2 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

Interesting. The brands you mention cover about 90% of the market. And yet people buy them, use them, and take great photos on these cameras. Perhaps they are not that bad. 

Perhaps my statement was overly hyperbolic. The cameras are obviously perfectly capable of taking great photos, however there are many, many complaints about the UX from the users of those brands. Everyone has to choose what they value most and make their own choice... economy, lenses, features, UX, etc... and for me the choice is Leica. Competition is a good thing here.

[wceide]

Very annoyed by this fw update … the joystick magnification was very intuitive 

i hope they will soon release a a new fw going backward

i tried to re install fw 5.2 but it is not possible once fw 6 is running 

[LBJ2]

Leica Fotos Ver. 4.3.4

Minor bug fixes & improvements update to the Fotos app today, Feb. 13th

No more than wishful thinking... but has me wondering perhaps getting ready for the next SL2 firmware update soon... that might return MF magnification for adapted M lenses back to the joy stick? 

[2M6TTLs]

On 12/9/2023 at 12:17 AM, Chris Nebard said:

Thanks @Andy Y, John,

I used the link to ask Leica if this was the case. They’ve confirmed it: the joystick can’t be used for zoom when focusing manual lenses and that this can be done via the thumbwheel. Wow! I won’t be upgrading as it takes away a necessary option for me, speaking only for myself  - as a user of M lenses on the SL2-s - that’s an own goal, surely? 🤷🏼‍♂️

This is why I strongly dislike software updates. In many cases they mess something up that already was working fine. Same with my computer. 

[Chris Nebard]

2 hours ago, 2M6TTLs said:

This is why I strongly dislike software updates. In many cases they mess something up that already was working fine. Same with my computer. 

It’s now two months (and counting) since this cock-up. Leica said they were working to fix it in a further update. Until they do, my SL2-s firmware will remain on the earlier version. 

[LeicaR10]

Chris Nebard,  Wise decision.  IMO, there are times when I start thinking someone who writes Leica firmware is commiting sabotage to give the company and product a bad reputation.  I find it hard to understand how a firmware update fixes a previous issue, then one or two firmware updates later, the issue reappears or makes things worse.  One long standing issue that comes to mind is the M camera freezing all the way back to the M9.  Makes one stop and wonder or at least it should.  r/ Mark

Edited February 17 by LeicaR10

[trickness]

I actually had an email from Steffen Rau who is the product manager of the SL line on December 18th. I contacted Leica, let them know that there was a multi page thread about the firmware 6.0 update and the removal of the back button focus and how many of us were quite dissatisfied about this change. Here is his response (he did not indicate that this needed to be confidential):

“My name is Steffen Rau and I’m the product manager for the SL-System. Your Mail was forwarded to me and I’m happy to answer you now.

I saw you had some concerns and wishes regarding the latest firmware Update for our SL2-cameras.

All wishes and improvement hints are very much appreciated and helps us to have a system with functions that customers need.

 

With the firmware update 6.0.0, we have implemented an extension to the joystick assignments. This means that the function can be engaged with a joystick press for both AF-L and AE-L. The function remains active until a joystick press is performed again. This is an enhancement, as previously the joystick had to be held permanently in order to use the locking function.

In order to enable consistent usage behavior of the joystick, we have moved the magnification function for manual focus and manually focused lenses from the joystick to an FN button. By default, this is the upper front FN button. However, the function can also be assigned to any other FN button. This gives us greater flexibility when using the magnification function.

 

We can now see from the first customer reactions that the magnification function was very frequently used with the joystick and that customers would like to have the function there again.

We are taking this reaction very seriously and are therefore considering putting the magnification function back on the joystick in one of the next firmware updates, but without compromising the improvement in AF-L and AE-L.

 We hope to launch a new firmware with your beloved function in January.”

I contacted him again last week and let him know that the thread about this firmware had now reached 11 pages, and that we were well into February without an update. I also suggested reposting the previous version firmware, so that perhaps people could downgrade and get the joystick functionality back. I also suggested that they expand their beta testing program to include more real world users of the SL system, as it seems they were completely caught by surprise that anyone would have any issue with this functionality being removed. 

I have not heard back yet (not sure I will hear back). I sure hope they’re not waiting on the release of the SL3 to put out an updated firmware. 

[feelssadman]

Thanks for your engagement!

[buj]

any news??

[Chris Nebard]

2 hours ago, buj said:

any news??

As far as I’m aware, no news on the joystick issue from Leica. However, on page 7 of his SL3 review thread,  Jono Slack responded to trickness’s reference to it, suggesting that he was “horrified” and would pursue it. As a respected tester, you would hope that his opinion would be listened to (in addition to the 11 pages here). In the meantime, I’m sticking with the previous firmware but, obviously, there are many disgruntled users who “upgraded” to 6.0 and who inadvertently have lost the joystick’s M/F zoom function. 

[buj]

i was lucky that i dit not update the firmware on my SL2...

hopefully Leica brings back the "old" function on the joystick and maybe some other improvements with a NEW software..

[feelssadman]

I'm slightly pissed that they announced this exact feature in a firmware update for the SL3. From leicarumors.com,

Quote

Leica released firmware update version 1.1.0 for the new SL3 camera. Here is the list of improvements: [...]
The Magnification function is now available in MF Mode. Simply press and hold the joystick [...]
Read more: https://leicarumors.com/2024/03/09/leica-sl3-firmware-update-version-1-1-0-released.aspx/#ixzz8UGa48cA3

Strategically, is isn't smart from Leica to add it to the SL3 first and/or to not immediately follow up with a firmware update for the SL2 because this potentially shows that they do not care about SL2 users anymore (which I hope is not true of course).

Edited March 12 by feelssadman

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[feelssadman]

Actually, we should be able to downgrade to 5.2 again. From a technical perspective, there shouldn't (theoretically) be any issue with re-installing it. I've found the firmware images for the SL2 and the SL2-S at reddotforum.com for the

• SL2: SL2_520.lfu
• SL2-S: SL2S_520.lfu