new MP chrome vs M2 overhauled (black paint)

[cesc]

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Hi! I've come across two great deals, actually.

I was on the verge of hitting the purchase button for a fully overhauled M2 with a black paint finish, and I've also received an offer from a Leica dealer for a brand new chrome MP. Now, I am truly torn about which one to choose. The M2 is over 50 years old, but it has been overhauled, and it's supposed to be "like new." On the other hand, the MP comes with a warranty and is brand new.

The absence of an internal light meter is not something I'll miss or really need. If it's there, that's great, but if not, I'm quite familiar with the lighting conditions in my home (where I mostly shoot daily life) and outdoors. When using film and the sunny 16 rule, it's more forgiving than relying on my M9 Monochrom.

I appreciate your help in making this decision.

[espelt]

Nobody can make the decision for you.
An M2, especially if it has had a full service, should work perfectly. Very robust, solid mechanics. I have a silver, early press button version. In my opinion the most beautiful M ever. It works perfectly. Of course: after 50 years something can always happen. Maybe it's like driving a vintage car.
A new MP with a guarantee - that's something nice. Especially if the price is right. Above all, it has the charm that there are no previous owners. Difficult...
Without you mentioning a price: Is the M2 offered at the same price as the MP? Is it repainted or original black?
Original Black is almost a piece for collectors and almost too good for daily, hard use. Rarely. Of course you can take pictures with it. But I wouldn't want to carry them around everywhere, that would be something for special moments. I wouldn't have any concerns about the MP.

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[logan2z]

42 minutes ago, cesc said:

Hi! I've come across two great deals, actually.

I was on the verge of hitting the purchase button for a fully overhauled M2 with a black paint finish, and I've also received an offer from a Leica dealer for a brand new chrome MP. Now, I am truly torn about which one to choose. The M2 is over 50 years old, but it has been overhauled, and it's supposed to be "like new." On the other hand, the MP comes with a warranty and is brand new.

The absence of an internal light meter is not something I'll miss or really need. If it's there, that's great, but if not, I'm quite familiar with the lighting conditions in my home (where I mostly shoot daily life) and outdoors. When using film and the sunny 16 rule, it's more forgiving than relying on my M9 Monochrom.

I appreciate your help in making this decision.

I'm going to assume that the M2 is not a factory black paint model.  If not, who did the overhaul and repaint?  Does the seller have documentation detailing what was done during the overhaul?  Unless it was Kanto I would personally skip the repainted M2.  

[cesc]

4 minutes ago, espelt said:

Nobody can make the decision for you.
An M2, especially if it has had a full service, should work perfectly. Very robust, solid mechanics. I have a silver, early press button version. In my opinion the most beautiful M ever. It works perfectly. Of course: after 50 years something can always happen. Maybe it's like driving a vintage car.
A new MP with a guarantee - that's something nice. Especially if the price is right. Above all, it has the charm that there are no previous owners. Difficult...
Without you mentioning a price: Is the M2 offered at the same price as the MP? Is it repainted or original black?
Original Black is almost a piece for collectors and almost too good for daily, hard use. Rarely. Of course you can take pictures with it. But I wouldn't want to carry them around everywhere, that would be something for special moments. I wouldn't have any concerns about the MP.

Leica M2 overhauled and repainted (not original) about 2K eur.

Leica MP chrome new about 4K ( in Europe now MPs are around 5.5k)

 

 

Edited October 26, 2023 by cesc

[grahamc]

Having used the MP viewfinder I wouldn't go back to other models (The increased contrast particularly in the rangefinder patch is a joy) so I always now recommend MP in these questions .   

I haven't used M2 sorry but the difference is noticeable versus M6 so perhaps so for earlier models.   It seems also better than my M10, I'm not sure how that's possible but it's just great and for me makes a practical difference to my photography.  Portraiture etc where DOF matters I'm more confident (and quicker) focussing with my MP than any other M camera.  

Edited October 26, 2023 by grahamc

[cesc]

6 minutes ago, logan2z said:

I'm going to assume that the M2 is not a factory black paint model.  If not, who did the overhaul and repaint?  Does the seller have documentation detailing what was done during the overhaul?  Unless it was Kanto I would personally skip the repainted M2.  

It's a really well know french artist who creates excellent pieces. He examines every M camera

He told me curtains were in great shape

Viewfinder clean and contrasty

and he does a whole revision in the mechanics.

http://www.summilux.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=78646

you can check some of his work here

 

What I am more concern about is the MP and this scratch film issues that is happening

 

[Stuart Richardson]

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If it were me, I would take the MP. I have owned an M3 in the past, as well as an MP, M7 and M6. My favorite is the M7. The updated viewfinder in the MP is a lot crisper in my experience, and a meter really is helpful, especially if you ever decide to try slides (the best color film, to be honest). You also get 28mm and 75mm framelines. Perhaps you don't think you will use them, but they are very nice to have. One of the reasons I was a bit frustrated by the M3 is that Leica's 35mm and 75mm lenses are so good, and it only has frames for 50, 90 and 135. You also have much quicker film loading, and you don't render the camera completely unusable if you lose the included 50 year old film spool.

None of this is to say an M2 is not capable of working very well, it's just that for my money, all the quality of life improvements in the MP and the warranty are well worth it. If you are more of a collector than user, then maybe the M2 is more attractive, but even then, it is presumably not original because of the paint. (Not that I would care about that detail, however).

[cesc]

2 minutes ago, Stuart Richardson said:

If it were me, I would take the MP. I have owned an M3 in the past, as well as an MP, M7 and M6. My favorite is the M7. The updated viewfinder in the MP is a lot crisper in my experience, and a meter really is helpful, especially if you ever decide to try slides (the best color film, to be honest). You also get 28mm and 75mm framelines. Perhaps you don't think you will use them, but they are very nice to have. One of the reasons I was a bit frustrated by the M3 is that Leica's 35mm and 75mm lenses are so good, and it only has frames for 50, 90 and 135. You also have much quicker film loading, and you don't render the camera completely unusable if you lose the included 50 year old film spool.

None of this is to say an M2 is not capable of working very well, it's just that for my money, all the quality of life improvements in the MP and the warranty are well worth it. If you are more of a collector than user, then maybe the M2 is more attractive, but even then, it is presumably not original because of the paint. (Not that I would care about that detail, however).

all your thoughts you've shared here are really helpful. Thanks!

[espelt]

If the M2's viewfinder is OK - it's not really inferior to the current MP viewfinders. With the M6, on the other hand, there is actually a difference: money was saved in production. And that didn't work so well in difficult lighting conditions. Which is why the viewfinders were later built again like they were before the M6.
So I wouldn't have any concerns in that regard. My M6 was converted to MP viewfinder. Nevertheless, I prefer the M2 viewfinder: frames and lines are not permanently displayed here. Which I find very pleasant. And that is also a real difference:
M2 there are only frames for 35; 50; 90mm. The MP by reflecting two light frames: for 28 and 90 mm, or for 35 and 135 mm, or for 50 and 75 mm.
So if you prefer 28 and 75mm, the decision is easy.

[espelt]

And maybe the small difference in the film counter:
The M2 has a small disc. Which doesn't reset automatically either. You have to do this by hand after loading the film.
The MP has this small window. The counter resets automatically.
Also worth mentioning is the matter of loading film. With the M2, the spool has to be taken out of the camera, the film has to be attached to the spool and everything has to be placed back into the camera. That takes a little longer. And some people don't cope with it so well.
With the MP this is very easy. With a little practice, this can also be done blindly and you'll just be a little faster.

[cesc]

Just now, espelt said:

And maybe the small difference in the film counter:
The M2 has a small disc. Which doesn't reset automatically either. You have to do this by hand after loading the film.
The MP has this small window. The counter resets automatically.
Also worth mentioning is the matter of loading film. With the M2, the spool has to be taken out of the camera, the film has to be attached to the spool and everything has to be placed back into the camera. That takes a little longer. And some people don't cope with it so well.
With the MP this is very easy. With a little practice, this can also be done blindly and you'll just be a little faster.

yes! I rememer when I had my M2 , the disc was not even an issue, because when I finished the roll of 36-38 exposures, it when back to 0 basically, after 1 -2 frames to advance the film. I don't even remember having to adjust it manually. The spool loading is so safe, no ghost rolls shot!

[jakontil]

I have the Mp but i love the m2, mine is R version, wont be able to pick between the two in terms of preference, but for street photo i lean more towards the M2-r due to its lack of metering, not distracting as i meter using sunny 16 rule

for my professional shoot, i can use either, and have my indecent LM handy or external, whichever but MP definitely more practical with its built in LM

so, if LM is a definitive, obviously MP, and added 28 mm frame line

[TomB_tx]

While I don't have an MP, I wouldn't be put off by the stories of some new ones scratching film - I'd bet the chances are small. Back in the 1960s our campus camera club kept a small honing stone as now and then someone's new camera (various brands) would scratch and a light pass of the stone on the pressure plate would cure the problem. Was and still is a rare and minor issue, if you can examine and troubleshoot.

I have M2 through M6, and my M6 finder was upgraded to MP style, and it's my favorite finder. A black paint repaint isn't desirable to me, but used M2s are plentiful and will continue to be available, so I'd go for a good deal on a new MP. I started with unmetered cameras and used them for decades, but the M6/MP meter is so unobtrusive and quick to use, that's what I prefer now. 

[colonel]

If you don't need a light meter, or are happy to work with something like an AstraHori on the M2, IMHO the spool loader and manual frame counter reset are not big things. The viewfinder is definitely a nice to have

For me, it would purely be a money thing. If money is no object get the MP, unless you just like the look and history of the M2

I have the M2, as I would rather spend the difference on a lens, but everyone is different

I bought my M2 from the Leica shop in London and have a 12 month guarantee which helps.

 

[cesc]

4 minutes ago, colonel said:

If you don't need a light meter, or are happy to work with something like an AstraHori on the M2, IMHO the spool loader and manual frame counter reset are not big things. The viewfinder is definitely a nice to have

For me, it would purely be a money thing. If money is no object get the MP, unless you just like the look and history of the M2

I have the M2, as I would rather spend the difference on a lens, but everyone is different

I bought my M2 from the Leica shop in London and have a 12 month guarantee which helps.

 

I think that too, better spent the money on a good lens and rolls of film

M2 is more than enough for my needs.

[spydrxx]

Haven't owned an MP, but do have an M2....tough old workhorse. I also owned an M4 and M6, and used an M3 for several months. If money is no object the MP, being considerably newer seems like a good choice. However, you've owned an M2 in the past, and if the color of the camera is important to you, and you are fine with the quirks of an M2...that seems like the better deal for you. Whichever you choose, I'm sure you'll be happy with it.

[ktmrider2]

The M2 viewfinder is the best one Leica ever produced, especially for the 35 focal length.  Having said that I do not use a 28 or 75.  Think about it, the .72 viewfinder which debuted in the M2 is the basic viewfinder for every other M ever made.  All the other features like spool loading or manually reseting the exposure counter or MINOR.  It is my favorite Leica model and I have owned them all (film that is).

If you have questions about the M2, go over to rangefinderforum and check out the M2 thread under Tom Abrahamsson thread.  More than you will want to know.

[burchyk]

My M2 viewfinder is as good as M-A in terms of brightness and contrast.

Downsides:

- no 28mm frame lines

- the viewfinder aperture is smaller, leaving less space around 35mm frame. Aperture can be removed or filed if needed.

Speed loading spool can be installed if you prefer that.

BUT mine broke twice in the first month of ownership. Hence the new M-A.

[Mr.Prime]

I personally prefer a simple viewfinder and so I've avoided a camera with a meter built in. I like to carry a small pocket sized incident meter (Sekonic 208 if I remember correctly). But I also like to have the window-frame-counter, the more modern spool for loading and I do find the crank-film-rewind lever can be helpful - so I'd suggest the M4 (the earlier models).

Edited November 24, 2023 by Mr.Prime

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[cesc]

Thanks so much for your replies. I end up taking the offer from the new MP. I couldn't let it go. Now I use the MP without batteries like an M2 and external light meter for when light is quite tricky