mechs Posted December 29, 2022 Share #1 Posted December 29, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi all What is the difference between the black paint on the the 2022 M6 and the MP, other than the matte/shiny designation? Will the M6 brass the same way as the MP? I don’t have a preference one way or the other but am curious how differently the finishes will age with regular use. Cheers Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 29, 2022 Posted December 29, 2022 Hi mechs, Take a look here Black paint on the new M6. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jakontil Posted December 29, 2022 Share #2 Posted December 29, 2022 The glossy black paint finish on mp sure brass more easily, m6 is doff finished and grippier if i take it from M11 and it should stay that way for a long period of time Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmans Posted December 29, 2022 Share #3 Posted December 29, 2022 If you don’t artificially brass…. Howling will it realistically be? I hv a 1930 Barnack’s and it is perfectly brassed. are we reading too much into brassed as a concept and-not allowing it time to brass naturally? 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechs Posted December 29, 2022 Author Share #4 Posted December 29, 2022 (edited) I’m not sure what the above reply is about but I clearly state in my question that I’m wondering about how differently the finishes will age with regular use. Not sure what artificial brassing or any of that YouTube-inspired nonsense has to do with it. Edited December 29, 2022 by mechs 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewl Posted December 29, 2022 Share #5 Posted December 29, 2022 (edited) For me the M6 finish seems to be similar (and reportedly is) to the M11 which is very durable (my M11 does not show any signs of use yet, have it for half a year). But, it is not as grippy as the M11! It feels more like the M10(P). And that is the main difference to the MP I think. It won't brass as easy as the MP! For the MP it feels as if the paint can just be wiped off (on purpose) to make it brass - of course, exaggerated, don't get me wrong RE the actual topic, how durable the finish in day-to-day use is I cannot provide a proper answer as I only have it for 4 weeks ca. Edited December 29, 2022 by Jewl 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted December 29, 2022 Share #6 Posted December 29, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, mechs said: I’m not sure what the above reply is about but I clearly state in my question that I’m wondering about how differently the finishes will age with regular use. Not sure what artificial brassing or any of that YouTube-inspired nonsense has to do with it. I'm afraid it's the nature of the forum at present. People (including a small number who appear to feel they have to comment on every single thread) wade in without properly reading the original question. Edited December 29, 2022 by wattsy 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamj Posted December 29, 2022 Share #7 Posted December 29, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) According to Andrea Pacella, Leica director of global marketing and communications in interview, the finish is the same black matte lacquer used on the M11. He says it is "incredibly scratch resistant', which some will see as a challenge. This is substantially different to the black paint on the Leica MP. I should add there has been a huge semantic argument on LUF on whether a lacquer is a paint. The camera uses the same leather as the M11, so this allows you to make a matching pair. This is in interview with Hugh Brownstone of three blind men and an elephant at 19:47 in the video on YT. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted December 30, 2022 Share #8 Posted December 30, 2022 22 hours ago, williamj said: This is substantially different to the black paint on the Leica MP. I should add there has been a huge semantic argument on LUF on whether a lacquer is a paint. You mean like when the MP was released and the finish was described as 'lacquer' (lackieren) and some people thought it was Asian black lacquer based on shellac? They were convinced it would wipe off and many words were written and Leica roundly mocked from the Nikon and Canon fraternity. Of course 'lacquer' or lackieren is just another name for paint and using the word to describe paint is not new. When automobiles were paint in nitro-cellulose paint Fender the guitar maker used Ford colours and automobile paints to finish their guitars, Stratocaster's and Telecaster's etc., and these were called 'lacquer' finishes. When Leica introduced the M9 the finish was now described as 'black paint', but it was powder coated paint/plastic, so not sprayed on wet, and derivatives of this are what are used today, the finish can be very thin which avoids a chip spreading but tough at the same time. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamj Posted December 30, 2022 Share #9 Posted December 30, 2022 5 hours ago, 250swb said: You mean like when the MP was released and the finish was described as 'lacquer' (lackieren) and some people thought it was Asian black lacquer based on shellac? They were convinced it would wipe off and many words were written and Leica roundly mocked from the Nikon and Canon fraternity. Of course 'lacquer' or lackieren is just another name for paint and using the word to describe paint is not new. When automobiles were paint in nitro-cellulose paint Fender the guitar maker used Ford colours and automobile paints to finish their guitars, Stratocaster's and Telecaster's etc., and these were called 'lacquer' finishes. When Leica introduced the M9 the finish was now described as 'black paint', but it was powder coated paint/plastic, so not sprayed on wet, and derivatives of this are what are used today, the finish can be very thin which avoids a chip spreading but tough at the same time. Thank you, I was unaware of the full history of the paint and lacquer semantic argument. I was just referring to the most recent incarnation, which equated the finish of the new M6 to that of the MP because they were both paints because lacquers are paints and Leica Store websites were used as evidence that the M6 finish was a paint because it was described as such on the website. It is possible some people were just stirring the pot. But as the Castrol advert said, Oils ain't oils and there is a huge diversity of finishes that are called paints and lacquers, some of which you so usefully described :). So that there is no misunderstanding, by semantic argument I mean an argument about the words used as labels for things, not the things themselves. Cheers. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huss Posted February 13, 2023 Share #10 Posted February 13, 2023 3 hours ago, 19and9 said: Will you rub a smooth thigh of a beautiful lady or a 200 grain sandpaper? I don’t know about you but I will go for the thigh. so gloss finish will brass quicker than matte because you rub it more no, the gloss finish will brass quicker because it was designed to wear quicker. Leica deliberately made it less durable. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huss Posted February 13, 2023 Share #11 Posted February 13, 2023 4 minutes ago, 19and9 said: I respectfully disagree From Leica’s site: https://leicacamerausa.com/photography/cameras-by-type/finish/premium-finish/black-paint/ M6: ”..enhanced with an abrasion-resistant black lacquer.” MP: ”After years of hard use, when a bit of bright brass begins to show through, it’s a sure sign to savvy photographers that the camera and its owner have shared many memorable experiences.” Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted February 13, 2023 Share #12 Posted February 13, 2023 "After years of hard use, when a bit of brass begins to show....." (my underlining) and that's the definition of 'designed to wear quicker'? The first Leica M to have a powder coated paint finish (similar to the new M6) was the M9 in 2009, so unless they had a time machine to go into the future the only option in 2002 would seem to have been to use ordinary paint. A similar excuse was used by Ford when asked why they built a Model T in 1908 and not a Mustang. Yes, the 2002 MP will wear quicker than the new plastic coated version, but to continue blaming them for it is like (and here's another analogy coming up) a guitarist turning down a Fender Custom Shop full lacquer paint Telecaster to have a 'made in Mexico' version because the paint is harder. The MP was the first production run Leica in many years to have a black paint finish, and the only comparisons at the time were examples of old M3 and M2 and M4 BP cameras which many sceptical people pointed to and asked 'do you want your expensive camera to look like this', hence Leica's guarded approach to warning about wear. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjxism Posted February 13, 2023 Share #13 Posted February 13, 2023 I’ve owned my MP for about 3 years but not using it on daily basis. I’ve gone through about 40 rolls of film. I dont have a case or bag, put the camera in any bag I feel like carry that day. I’ve only seen some brassing on the advance lever. There are some minor dents and marks on other places which shows the brass, but they are not as “organic” as “brassing”. I think it’ll brass less in the future as I can hardly afford film today and I have an M11 now I also had an M10 for a few years, never saw the shining brass under the black coating, though the coating has worn thinner (shows a shinier dark grey color) over the years. It’s quite ugly compare to the sexy brassing on the MP. When I sold the M10, they are called “signs of use”. I have a black M11 now. It will never brass as it’s aluminum. I feel the coating is stronger than M10 and MP. But I believe it’ll show signs of use sooner or later. But it’s digital, it’ll go down in value anyway. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Ricoh Posted February 13, 2023 Share #14 Posted February 13, 2023 24 minutes ago, tjxism said: I’ve owned my MP for about 3 years but not using it on daily basis. I’ve gone through about 40 rolls of film. I dont have a case or bag, put the camera in any bag I feel like carry that day. I’ve only seen some brassing on the advance lever. There are some minor dents and marks on other places which shows the brass, but they are not as “organic” as “brassing”. I think it’ll brass less in the future as I can hardly afford film today and I have an M11 now I also had an M10 for a few years, never saw the shining brass under the black coating, though the coating has worn thinner (shows a shinier dark grey color) over the years. It’s quite ugly compare to the sexy brassing on the MP. When I sold the M10, they are called “signs of use”. I have a black M11 now. It will never brass as it’s aluminum. I feel the coating is stronger than M10 and MP. But I believe it’ll show signs of use sooner or later. But it’s digital, it’ll go down in value anyway. M11 is aluminium, good God almighty! Yes, Analogue ⏫ Digital ⬇️⬇️⬇️ but film ⏫⏫ Sorry for being off topic Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock Posted February 13, 2023 Share #15 Posted February 13, 2023 12 minutes ago, Steve Ricoh said: M11 is aluminium, good God almighty! Yes, Analogue ⏫ Digital ⬇️⬇️⬇️ but film ⏫⏫ Sorry for being off topic Only the Black Paint top plate is aluminium, the chrome M11 top plate is brass. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock Posted February 13, 2023 Share #16 Posted February 13, 2023 43 minutes ago, tjxism said: I also had an M10 for a few years, never saw the shining brass under the black coating, though the coating has worn thinner (shows a shinier dark grey color) over the years. It’s quite ugly compare to the sexy brassing on the MP. When I sold the M10, they are called “signs of use”. The grey colour is the nickel plate between the Black Chrome and the Brass top plate. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Ricoh Posted February 13, 2023 Share #17 Posted February 13, 2023 1 hour ago, Matlock said: Only the Black Paint top plate is aluminium, the chrome M11 top plate is brass. Even though I have no intention of ‘shelling out’ for an M11, the aluminium top plate seals it! Admittedly the choice of aluminium is easier to stomach than the rather inappropriate use of zinc. (I have an M6 and it’s going to a ‘zinc lover’ somewhere when I get round to posting it.) Leica M demands brass top and bottom. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock Posted February 13, 2023 Share #18 Posted February 13, 2023 49 minutes ago, Steve Ricoh said: Even though I have no intention of ‘shelling out’ for an M11, the aluminium top plate seals it! Admittedly the choice of aluminium is easier to stomach than the rather inappropriate use of zinc. (I have an M6 and it’s going to a ‘zinc lover’ somewhere when I get round to posting it.) Leica M demands brass top and bottom. I think the use of aluminium makes perfect sense as it great reduces the weight without compromising strength (after all the rest of the camera is aluminium). As to zinc, it proved perfectly suited at the time (before CNC brass was available) and, in spite of the many scare stories on this forum, the cases of zinc bubbling was fairly rare out of the many M4-P, M6 and M6TTL cameras produced (well over 140,000), probably far less than 0.05% Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
logan2z Posted February 13, 2023 Share #19 Posted February 13, 2023 3 hours ago, tjxism said: I think it’ll brass less in the future as I can hardly afford film today and I have an M11 now $9000 buys a lot of film 😉 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjxism Posted February 13, 2023 Share #20 Posted February 13, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, logan2z said: $9000 buys a lot of film 😉 Lol. True if counting pennies. But shooting film also requires: faith in a good developer (color); dealing with the x-rays machines at the airport; unstable supply of a certain film stock. The last straw was that I failed to properly load one of film on my first trip abroad after locking down for 3 years… I enjoy shooting film very much. Now I’ll shooting B&W only and develop myself as a niche(er) hobby. Plus I’ve just sent in my MP to fix the scratch issue and there will be a few months before I can get it back😅. Only a month into digital I'm already missing the butter smooth advance lever… my right thumb keeps fumbling before each shot. Edited February 13, 2023 by tjxism 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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